[tesla69]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

to cripple and destroy the planet threatening car culture that is California.
!

while i moved back to nyc partly because of the 24 hour public trans here, i think the american car culture was one of the great liberating forces of individual will and autonomy in known human history. (turned into an alienating force as well but thats to be expected) It offers incredible power and liberty to the individual. the stupidest moron in america can get in a car and drive from one coast to the other and back again and not need to register with any authority or ask anyone's permission - all in the space of a week or so! (or so it was until recently)

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by tesla69

while i moved back to nyc partly because of the 24 hour public trans here, i think the american car culture was one of the great liberating forces of individual will and autonomy in known human history. (turned into an alienating force as well but thats to be expected) It offers incredible power and liberty to the individual. the stupidest moron in america can get in a car and drive from one coast to the other and back again and not need to register with any authority or ask anyone's permission - all in the space of a week or so! (or so it was until recently)

slavery was one of the great liberating forces of individual will and autonomy as well, for the slavemasters who had extra time on their hands...

the car is evil. it kills hundreds of thousands of people a year. it is killing the planet. it is pure and utter laziness, and while it is a step up from the horse [in chicago in 1890 on any given day there were appox 20,000 horse carcasses littering the streets], it was not the appropriate step.

Individual cars are killing us all, there I said it, I feel better.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

slavery was one of the great liberating forces of individual will and autonomy as well, for the slavemasters who had extra time on their hands...

and then they invented capitalism, which was even better, so now the slaves are responsible for the conditions of their own servitude...

a new cheap CLEAN source of energy - like if they tapped the core of the earth or wave power or something FUCKING OBVIOUS could make all this discussion moot...but in the meantime we have nitwits like this as 'leaders'

<<McCain suggested nuclear power is a safe energy resource because "we've <<been sailing Navy ships around the world for 50 years with nuclear power <<plants on them."

its great he can parade around and say that and no one can dispute him because any incident would be top secret but the US just apologized to Japan for the USS Houston leaking in August.

quickwiki check
April 10, 1963: The US submarine "USS Thresher", a nuclear-driven attack-submarine implodes 100 miles east of Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA, in 2750 meters depth. The whole crew, 169 men, is killed, and debris C including the reactor C is spread over a radius of a half mile.
Dec. 12, 1971: The nuclear submarine "USS DACE" loses 500 gallons of slightly radioactive water into the river at New London, Connecticut, USA. The US Navy admits there have been a "a few" leaks in the past.
April 21, 1973: There is a leak in the primary circulation system of the US submarine "Guardfish".

sorry i got off subject..obama doesn't really in th end seem less enthusiastic about nukes than mccain, so don't take this as a planted post.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Individual cars are killing us all,.

well what about individual houses? They're even bigger wastes of energy and resources don't you think? That little old lady on the hill in the huge house she keeps lit up and heated and the lawn maintained-what an incredible WASTE of resources! Shouldn't we just all live in huge sleeping halls? we can just rotate bedding, we don't need individual bedding, every 8 hours some else can take a shift...

I just am not sure if the enemy is the internal combustion engine, the vehicle, or both due to overpopulation.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by tesla69

well what about individual houses? They're even bigger wastes of energy and resources don't you think? That little old lady on the hill in the huge house she keeps lit up and heated and the lawn maintained-what an incredible WASTE of resources! Shouldn't we just all live in huge sleeping halls? we can just rotate bedding, we don't need individual bedding, every 8 hours some else can take a shift...

I just am not sure if the enemy is the internal combustion engine, the vehicle, or both due to overpopulation.

yes I agree. basically, the entire structure of los angeles is a lost cause at the moment, almost as much a trophy to decadence as las vegas, equally placed in the middle of a desert.

but Measure R is not going to build rails where the need them, and put buses where they should, instead it is going to develop the San Fernando Valley in an attempt to lure them into staying incorporated in the city and avoid secession. moral of the story, us normal poor folks who ride the bus on the eastside are utterly assed out.

that is why this highspeed rail is a fairytale like reagon's vision of america.

oh yeah, and there is no such thing as overpopulation, just overconsumption. The earth, at the current rates, can support 2 billion folks, but contains enough resources to easily sustain 48 BILLION people if they all don't want to live the american dream of waste and decay.

[phoenix]

I hightly doubt our earth could ever contain 48 billion people to a satisfactory living standard, and by that I dont mean over consumption, I mean a low mortality rate and a good quality of life.

First world living standards in relation to land for food production vs population, mean that you just slightly over 1 acre, I think 1.3? of land to sustain your population if they are following modern dietary recommendations. Last I heard the US is down to around 1.5

I mean thats not even taking into consideration over consuption or over eating, that is what you need, to produce food for one person, each year.

Growing as much of your own food as you can, and buying locally can have a huge positive contribution in that it decreases the strain on the food industry, not to mention being far more efficient in regards to water usage.. Not eating meat and ceasing the meat production industry could substantially hold back the food shortage, even for several hundred years, but no one gives a fuck about not eating meat, no one believes we are as up to our necks in our own shit as we actually are. So no one will ever change and everyone will die (almost) and then in a few hundred or thousand years we'll start all over again until our sun consumes our planet.

[jon boy]

everytime i have been in california/LA the rail system was pretty bad. when i wantd to get out to san bernadino and places like that which i did a lot then i took forever and the trains where not quick and there was hardly any running/ at weird times etc. there needs to be massive investment in public transport in a lot of places in the states so that people were les reliant on cars.