[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by knox

I like notyourfiend.

right back at yah!

[Seandi]

people get real passionate about horrible music

[Genteel Death]

so, apart from trite slogans like ''the personal is political'', is there anything else to be discussed on this thread?

[dirty bunny]

music for men is pretty good

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

so, apart from trite slogans like ''the personal is political'', is there anything else to be discussed on this thread?

I'd be interested if you had any thoughts on the differences between American and European political music, beyond what you've said already in this thread. Personally (which is politically) speaking.

[Genteel Death]

Politics in European music always struck me as being mixed with the effects that descriminatory policies have on the personal, if we're talking songs with lyrics. Then you have bands like like Plastic People of The Universe, where lyrics are absent altogether, yet they are a highly politicised band. I think in Europe in general there is way more a tradition of non-musical protest, therefore the graphic sloganeering present in, say, your Bob Dylans etc, tends to be more filtered through the results of injustice. On the other hand you have the right wing bands, though, and they spout the sort of hatred, in a clear lyrical manner, that is expected of them.

[Genteel Death]

unless we refer to what you mentioned earlier about bands that take the American way of musical protest as a model. And that is a popular way in Europe too, these days.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by Glice

I'm not sure how much of this is directed at me, but I think it's really important to not assume that my dislike of Fugazi is the same as not liking political music.

I believe it's indirected at me, if anyone.

However, I think I really look for something very different from music than notyourfriend by not knowing how music and politics go hand-in-hand. I wonder where this assumption comes from, that because politics is not an element of taste in music, that politics is not an element of my life in any other capacity.

[Glice]

Not sure I follow you Bradders - you're saying you don't understand how music and politics go hand-in-hand - do you therefore understand politics to be a rarified field distinct from artistic endeavour?

I find it very odd that you, of all people, would consider politics to be something distinct from other areas of understanding. I'm not criticising, just... well, I'm not sure what you're saying.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by Glice

Not sure I follow you Bradders - you're saying you don't understand how music and politics go hand-in-hand - do you therefore understand politics to be a rarified field distinct from artistic endeavour?

I find it very odd that you, of all people, would consider politics to be something distinct from other areas of understanding. I'm not criticising, just... well, I'm not sure what you're saying.

Well, no, I think that is a misrepresentation of my opinion. I meant in my first reply on the subject to explain that I believe that it is a matter of ethical sentiment that connects music to politics. Political music that lacks an ethics also lack a pathos. As it were, my taste in music is centered around pathos, which might be why I am such a prick against objective criterias of quality. In what might be complete contrast to the slogan that "the personal is political," I believe that the political in relation to the individual is the making of the personal into the impersonal in order to influence other persons. I think the value of music on politics is its ability to articulate sentiment in a way sloganeering simply cannot match. Artistic endeavor that engages in the political (with the ethical sentiment as an assumed premise) is entirely possible but I think it fails both as an artistic endeavor and as a political endeavor.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

^^Why I usually ignore most of your posts.

:-)

[knox]

what. there is a way to try and deny or ignore it, but there really isnt a way to live in which politics is not influencing your life.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by DeadDiscoDildo

^^Why I usually ignore most of your posts.

:-)

Fair enough.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by knox

what. there is a way to try and deny or ignore it, but there really isnt a way to live in which politics is not influencing your life.

Are you replying to anyone in particular or just stating the fact?

[notyourfiend]

To put it in simple terms I like music that moves me. Therefore, I often relate to music with political messages that I relate to/agree with.

[alteredcourse]

I probably said this already (so gag me), but I tend to veer towards tracks without vocals.

At this point, when things are political, I feel like its not so much political as much as preaching to the choir. That can serve its own purpose, but it's fucked when terms like radical and urgent get associated with anything of the such. I dont think that kind of music ever changed any minds so much as revved up opinions that already existed.

"that kind of music" can certainly vary. To be broad, I think the first thing that comes to mind is rage against the machine and anything riot-grrl related.

They dont even try to relate to anyone outside of their own group. Which is fine, for their own group. Get all excited, and stuff. Its a cultural thing, and thats awesome.

[notyourfiend]

the ppl who were involved w riot grrl recongized that one of the reasons the movement failed was because they were having a difficult time getting the message out to others outside their own community. a part of that is because the media totally spun it around...but that's a whole other story.

that being said, even if you are techinically speaking to the crowd, music can still provide a sense of solidary which can be just as important.

[knox]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Are you replying to anyone in particular or just stating the fact?

im just saying.

[infinitemusic]

Originally Posted by Glice

I would just like to say that, hetronormativity or not, I fucking love Tatu. I even have the Russian-language versions of their albums.

Thanks Glice, I really need that daily dose of pop shit pandering from you IN EVERY FUCKING THREAD

[infinitemusic]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Look, girls, on one hand knox says that she is not being too serious, on the other notyourfiend would like more serious discussion about.....about what, exactly?

knox also has this way of prefexing a reply to her posts by someone who challenges some of her ideas with ''you want to have a discussion with me'', ''well now we'd engage in a horrible long discussion on what is "alternative". but we won't'' etc, which makes me think that when another poster's opinion is in clear contrast with hers, she suddenly tries to save her face by saying that she's bored, she has work, she's not being serious, and allthat crap.

That is no way to spark discussion. If you want to be listened to, you also need to listen to others. Yeah?

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Oh ok. Now I am seriously bored of this. Have a good day.

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Listen, it is getting a bit boring for me...

Yeah, Knox has a problem with that. You are boring.. all of your posts are basically retarded. You aren't actually trying to discuss whatever the fuck this thread is about, obviously

On SY's politics - I think the thing is, the band who wrote Confusion is Sex are a different, much more politically charged band than the one who crafted the Eternal. Again, I don't really believe that something like 'Youth against fascism' really says much - there are scant few white 'alternative' bands that don't oppose the vague cache-all term 'fascism'.

Well, I think that "Anti-Orgasm" has some politics in it. Also, sure most bands might be "against" fascism, but they don't write songs about it. And do you even remember the lyrics to that song, because it talks about a lot of political issues that were going on at the time.. almost like it was an effort to get their fans to look it up and see what was going on in the political world at the time.

And of course you would post a link to Miley Cyrus. How is that any different or better from any punk band that you hate, beside the fact that it's a shitty pop song with terrible singing and lyrics that are even worse than anything by the millions of Black Flag wannabes that churn out similar garbage?

The other thing is, I've never known anyone that wasn't white and a bit middle class who was into Fugazi. Shouting about social injustices to the most priveleged teenagers in existence, in one of the richest countries in the world strikes me as whole heap of pointless.

Well that depends on whether they get those kids- who are the only ones who can change anything, since the privileged are the only ones who can really affect change- to do anything about it or change their ways.

And notyourfriend is right, almost all punk was middle class.

I've never listened to Fugazi and don't plan to.