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Old 04.06.2006, 12:28 PM   #21
qprogeny79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechex
and who say's they get to have state funded health insurance? why do they get seperate, special, treatment? capitalism is not based on unfair treatment.

i'll agree with you there . . . they shouldn't have state-funded health insurance, because no governmentally supported health care system should exist. not only does it monopolize health care, destroying competition and therefore quality, but it's immoral because it's funded by taxes expropriated from an unwilling public. but that's NOT capitalism; that's the welfare state at work.
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Old 04.06.2006, 12:32 PM   #22
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I think qprogeny might listen to a little AM talk radio on occasion.

(just ribbing you; don't get upset)
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Old 04.06.2006, 12:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Savage Clone
Wal Mart will not offer any CDs with parental advisory stickers, make people change song titles for CDs their store carries, etc.
Yes, this is their prerogative as a private company, but I will not support a store that does this kind of thing.
If lowest prices are of utmost concern, why not just buy everything black or grey market?

that's fair. it all comes down to personal preference. my point only was that if one believes wal-mart is being unfair, the only legitimate way to stop it is not to shop there.

regarding the black market concern, as i understand it the black market tends to be in blatant violation of copyright laws (like the booming pirated dvd industry in china). when i say that those who offer the lowest price possible while still making a profit should be extolled, i mean those who can do so while still respecting intellectual property laws and other legal protections.
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Old 04.06.2006, 12:37 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Savage Clone
I think qprogeny might listen to a little AM talk radio on occasion.

(just ribbing you; don't get upset)

haha . . . no, but i do read a fair bit of ayn rand. rib away.
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Old 04.06.2006, 12:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qprogeny79
i'll agree with you there . . . they shouldn't have state-funded health insurance, because no governmentally supported health care system should exist. not only does it monopolize health care, destroying competition and therefore quality, but it's immoral because it's funded by taxes expropriated from an unwilling public. but that's NOT capitalism; that's the welfare state at work.

u lost me there. you're agreeing that why wal-mart shouldn't have state paid for health care. what's that have to do with a welfare state?
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Old 04.06.2006, 12:47 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechex
u lost me there. you're agreeing that why wal-mart shouldn't have state health care. what's that have to do with a welfare state?

because state-funded health care is inherently part of the welfare state. if the government helps wal-mart pay its healthcare benefits to its workers, it can only do so by getting the money from taxpayers -- i.e., by holding a gun to their heads.

the only legitimate functions of a government are to protect its citizens' rights from foreign invaders and domestic criminals and to arbitrate disputes through a judiciary. to get the government in the business of protecting its citizens from anything else (unemployment, disease, poverty, financial insecurity after retirement, etc.) is to establish a welfare state; that's why the private sector exists.
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Old 04.06.2006, 12:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qprogeny79
that's fair. it all comes down to personal preference. my point only was that if one believes wal-mart is being unfair, the only legitimate way to stop it is not to shop there.


My point too. Which is why I don't shop there. What anyone else does is not my concern, nor can I control them.
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Old 04.06.2006, 12:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qprogeny79
because state-funded health care is inherently part of the welfare state. if the government helps wal-mart pay its healthcare benefits to its workers, it can only do so by getting the money from taxpayers -- i.e., by holding a gun to their heads.

well, we agree it shouldn't be. one can't claim, "hey it's capitalism, wal-mart good", b/c we've just demonstrated it's exactly not capitalism in this sense.

the only legitimate functions of a government are to protect its citizens' rights from foreign invaders and domestic criminals and to arbitrate disputes through a judiciary. to get the government in the business of protecting its citizens from anything else (unemployment, disease, poverty, financial insecurity after retirement, etc.) is to establish a welfare state; that's why the private sector exists.


i respectfully completely disagree. we've seen the results via the Enron's of the world
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Old 04.06.2006, 01:00 PM   #29
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I'll bet qprogeny wants to see all roads privatized too. Boy, would that be fun.
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Old 04.06.2006, 01:08 PM   #30
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"the only legitimate functions of a government are to protect its citizens' rights from foreign invaders and domestic criminals and to arbitrate disputes through a judiciary".

my, that is simplifying it a tad, no? (haha..ribbing)
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Old 04.06.2006, 01:11 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laila
well i hate it cause today i went there to get some medicine, and when i was about to leave , some guy whistled at me. it was probably one of the most disturbing experiences of my life. ugh it was so gross. this guy was like in his 30s maybe 40s......ahhh!!!! it was gross, i never want to go back there. i already hated it, but now i'm really never going back.!!!!

I would have punched him in the face if I were you.

Anyways, a guy shot himself at my wal-mart. I'm trying to find an article on it, but can't.
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Old 04.06.2006, 02:09 PM   #32
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I really have no problem with Wal-Mart other than the fact it takes away business from mom and pop shops. If you are fucking poor with three kids shopping at Wal Mart is survival.
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Old 04.06.2006, 02:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechex
i respectfully completely disagree. we've seen the results via the Enron's of the world

enron wasn't the result of corruption as much as stupidity. from what i understand enron invested a bazillion dollars on off-the-wall speculative nonsense and then its corporate leaders wouldn't listen to advice when they were told that the company would plummet as a result . . . the only corruption was the cover-up, which of course should be prosecuted, but that's why we have a criminal justice system.

and no, privatized roads would suck, simply because the logistics would be a nightmare. i don't have a problem with the government contracting private companies for construction and maintenance, but there should still be rules and regulations simply to streamline the process and make it less confusing when you're traveling interstate (or inter-province, depending on where you live).
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Old 04.06.2006, 02:26 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechex
"the only legitimate functions of a government are to protect its citizens' rights from foreign invaders and domestic criminals and to arbitrate disputes through a judiciary".

my, that is simplifying it a tad, no? (haha..ribbing)

yeah, totally. screw welfare, medicare, medicaid, social security, food stamps, unemployment, income taxes . . . small government all the way.
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Old 04.06.2006, 02:29 PM   #35
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What about public schools?
Get rid of those and we could get a sweet little underclass going then, boy.
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Old 04.06.2006, 02:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qprogeny79
the only legitimate functions of a government are to protect its citizens' rights from foreign invaders and domestic criminals and to arbitrate disputes through a judiciary. to get the government in the business of protecting its citizens from anything else (unemployment, disease, poverty, financial insecurity after retirement, etc.) is to establish a welfare state; that's why the private sector exists.

not really. the only legitimate functoins of a government are those which the people determines to be, if we understand "legitimacy" to mean representative of the people. the libertarian creed is not intrinsically more valid than any other political ideology. in a democracy, it's up to the voters to decide what kind of government they want, whether it be socialism, social democracy, neo-liberalism, anarcho-sindicalism or whatever...

the problem i have with ayn rand is that being a second-rate thinker she turned philosophy into dogma. actually she wasn't as bad as her followers, who take every word ever uttered by her as some sort of divine revelation. (im not saying you're one of them by the way-- i'm talking about those ayn rand groupies i met in college)
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Old 04.06.2006, 02:35 PM   #37
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i think enron was about de-regulation, or "get government out of the way" so we can operate in the name of capitalism, albeit phony, and small govt. u know theyturned off the fucking electricity to like half of california to up their value. who will stop them? the law,the government.
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Old 04.06.2006, 02:37 PM   #38
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yup, public schools should go. the reason is that the government has a vested interest in teaching its citizens what it wants them to hear . . . also because the government should not be in the business of supporting ideas. look at ward churchill . . . should taxpayers be forced to support what that nut has to say? obviously not. as for the charge that it would create disparities in opportunity among income classes . . . that's why charities exist. plus under competition there would be pressure on every school to keep tuition low, and the decreased taxes from the elimination of the already inflated and wasteful expenditures on education would help defray the cost for families. look at monopolized public education now, with its zoning laws and teachers' unions with their impossible regulations for firing members . . . essentially, telling a kid where he's going to go to school eliminates competition among schools and thereby discourages schools from being the best they can be, which is the major reason why public schools are so abysmal, at least in the us of a.
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Old 04.06.2006, 02:39 PM   #39
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As opposed to private schools, most of whom teach what Jesus wants you to hear.
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Old 04.06.2006, 02:40 PM   #40
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i hate walmart because i hate all faceless multi national corporations that take everything from the small guy and make it so there is no choice but to go to walmart. btw i am british, but walmart owns plenty of chain stores over here as well.
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