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Old Yesterday, 04:51 PM   #5001
Bytor Peltor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
now DEADBEAT DONALD is refusing to pay the million dollars he offered for charity if elizabeth warren proved she had native american ancestry.

ha ha ha ha deadbeat donald always lying

Cherokee Nation responds to Senator Warren’s DNA test:

“A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong."

“It makes a mockery out of DNA tests..while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments & their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented & whose heritage is proven. Sen. Warren is undermining tribal interests w/her continued claims of tribal heritage"
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Old Yesterday, 04:53 PM   #5002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Cherokee Nation responds to Senator Warren’s DNA test:

“A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong."

“It makes a mockery out of DNA tests..while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments & their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented & whose heritage is proven. Sen. Warren is undermining tribal interests w/her continued claims of tribal heritage"
doh

she’s never claimed tribal citizenship, only ancestry

(also, the cherokees are economically opposed to expanding citizenship which is why they’ve denied black cherokees)

see: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ur-birthright/

but fox news won’t let you regurgitate that

PAY UP, DEADBEAT DONNIE
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Old Yesterday, 05:06 PM   #5003
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I don't see how creep rat has any more rights to speak than brown people or women.
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Old Yesterday, 05:38 PM   #5004
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Trump evades West Coast states environmental controls. Turn navy bases into coal export terminals

https://apnews.com/573a19c3d43643e5b2d961b46cd99c67
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Old Yesterday, 06:56 PM   #5005
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@demonyo

check this out!

i just found it but looks very promising:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...bout-race.html
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Old Yesterday, 07:36 PM   #5006
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I believe it proves how much space Our President occupies in her brain......like a mini TRUMP tower!

Out West in Vegas where the grownups lay down their cash, I find it interesting that Squa Warren and her .001% to 3% American Indian blood is holding steady at LONG ODDS to win the 2020 Election.

President Donald Trump is still the +150 favorite.

About 65 times more bets on Trump than Warren.

Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
doh

she’s never claimed tribal citizenship, only ancestry

(also, the cherokees are economically opposed to expanding citizenship which is why they’ve denied black cherokees)

see: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ur-birthright/

but fox news won’t let you regurgitate that

PAY UP, DEADBEAT DONNIE
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Old Yesterday, 07:40 PM   #5007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
I believe it proves how much space Our President occupies in her brain......like a mini TRUMP tower!

Out West in Vegas where the grownups lay down their cash, I find it interesting that Squa Warren and her .001% to 3% American Indian blood is holding steady at LONG ODDS to win the 2020 Election.

President Donald Trump is still the +150 favorite.

About 65 times more bets on Trump than Warren.

well good for you and your vices
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Old Yesterday, 11:19 PM   #5008
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I may agree with Elizabeth Warren on a lot of things, but I can still admit she's being a complete piece of garbage on this point. She's giving fuel to The Idiot Boy King. Good job Democrats. You've always been great on screwing things up when the world has been handed to you on a platter.
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Old Yesterday, 11:21 PM   #5009
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Also, Bytor, you aren't winning any points by using the term Squaw. Politics aside, your comments on race in this thread are seriously problematic. I consider you a friend and you are really digging a hole for yourself here.
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Old Today, 02:39 AM   #5010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
@demonyo

check this out!

i just found it but looks very promising:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...bout-race.html

OK, so the Enlightenment helped define/codify and in a sense promote racism. The point is what do we do now? No one with a serious interest in the Enlightenment (Peterson and Pinker included) are unaware of its problems - although they may not interpret them in quite the way that article does. But the point is they (and I) still prefer it to what the Liberal/Left is currently offering via the zero sum game of Intersectional politics. If rational discourse is essentially a white straight male one then all I can still think is that rational discourse remains the best way of working on that. You won't agree with that because within your discourse that's an impossible contradiction but until something better comes along in terms of actually helping us out of this mess, I'm sticking with it, even if I'm holding my nose while I do. Interesectional Politics appeals to a certain impulse because it .doesn't seek reconciliation as a way forward but rather a multitude of little micro-wars between genders races and sexualities. Enlightenment rationalism may never achieve that reconciliation either but I do believe (counter to the points in that article) that it at least aspires to it, even if only conceptually through the idea of a dialectic. The Enlightment can essentially settle on a 1-1 draw. Interectional Politics needs one group to win which by default means another group has to lose.

We're gonna have to fundamentally agree to disagree on that cos you can always point to problems within the Enlightenment (many of which I'll concede) but I'll still consider it preferable to Intersectional Politics.

Apart from that, I'm sort of more interested in the real world problems of why the Dems have lost political ground, than going into abstract philosophizing that might underpin certain points but ends up a topic on its own.
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Old Today, 03:17 AM   #5011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Clone
Also, Bytor, you aren't winning any points by using the term Squaw. Politics aside, your comments on race in this thread are seriously problematic. I consider you a friend and you are really digging a hole for yourself here.

Erik - thank you for your friendship here over the years. I realize I must have said something horribly offensive for you to call me out.

YES - referring to someone as Squaw when that individual is miss using a bloodline percentage was in poor taste and I do apologize! As they say, two wrongs don’t make a right.

I guess me asking (and providing video) of the CNN reporter / Democratic Party referring to Kanye as a -Dumb Negro- was out of line? I’ve never used the ‘N’ Word here as slang or in a derogatory way.....but if that is how you or anyone else here received it......offended by my question......please accept my apologies and I’m happy to go back and delete the post.

The only other time I remember you raising a point of contention was with my use of the term, hermaphrodite, several months ago.

Again, All apologies to anyone here that I have offended......probably best that I go put up my shovel.
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Old Today, 07:49 AM   #5012
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I don’t recall allowing bitey to say anything, either....you identity special interest need to go back to your closets. We defeated your groups in the American Civil War and WW2
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Old Today, 08:19 AM   #5013
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Your 'We' doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as them. Your 'We' couldn't even get its shit together enough to beat Donald flippin' Trump. God help us when you come up against an actual serious opponent.
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Old Today, 09:33 AM   #5014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
OK, so the Enlightenment helped define/codify and in a sense promote racism.

racism, male supremacy, global takeover by ethnic europeans, colonialism, science as extermination, eugenics, etc etc etc

but that is not really what i am still trying to say

what i have been saying is that the subject of the enlightenment is a male white european etc etc.

this is important!

to me all of these shortcoming do not not disqualify the enlightment, but it brings into the foreground many of its discontents and the reasons for their discontent

the problem with the enlightenment is that it has not delivered on its promises. it’s a nice club to be a member of, but in contradiction with its philosophical underpinnings, it has been, historically, an exclusive club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
The point is what do we do now?

now we listen first, and not rush

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
No one with a serious interest in the Enlightenment (Peterson and Pinker included) are unaware of its problems - although they may not interpret them in quite the way that article does.

it’s because they are white male educated affluent etc etc bla bla bla

perspectivism is a thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
But the point is they (and I) still prefer it to what the Liberal/Left is currently offering via the zero sum game of Intersectional politics.

it doesn’t have to be an either/or.

i like pinkert as a science writer, i agree that the enlightenment has brought us real progress

but peterson seems to me too eager to preserve not just the promise of the enlightenment, but the primacy of the original club membership


Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
If rational discourse is essentially a white straight male one

no it’s not

the woman, the negro, the wild indian, the miscegenated, the low-born, the subtropical, haa haaa haaa, we all have proven (to whom? to massah?) capable of rational discourse.

the problem is that rational discourse has historically been used not as a pure objective clarity of thought in search of truth, but as instrumental reason to justify all manner of oppression and exploitation and outright extermination of clearly ethnic enterprises.

but the same tools of the enlightenment are now are being used to undermine these oppresive structures.

maybe you want to call them absurd and lacking in logic, but it is discourse and it is within the parameters of rationality, especially when you compare it to some of the shit the great “forefathers” were spewing in their day.

like science, the enlightenment has the virtue of self-questioning and self-correction.

i’m pinning my hopes on that

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
one then all I can still think is that rational discourse remains the best way of working on that.

yes!


Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
You won't agree with that because within your discourse that's an impossible contradiction

i do what?

you seem to be stuck in some either/or polarity and you’re missing the point of my position which is neither.

i’m for the enlightenment. i’m for the enlightenment for all.

that means that the supreme subject of the enlightment needs to change.

that doesn’t mean the end of the enlightenment project. it means the fulfillment of its promise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
but until something better comes along in terms of actually helping us out of this mess, I'm sticking with it, even if I'm holding my nose while I do.

i don’t see anything better either. but it doesn’t have to be “the white judeochristian menzes vs. the world.” that’s very close-minded. that’s fucking tribal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Interesectional Politics appeals to a certain impulse because it .doesn't seek reconciliation as a way forward but rather a multitude of little micro-wars between genders races and sexualities.

i still do not think we have a good workable definition here to discuss this. you’re talking from your experience in academia, i’m talking from my experience in everyday life in america, and things are being lost in translation.

but it’s okay to put this aside for a moment because i’d like to get some agreement on the premises at least.

the premise is that the enlightenment project, as it stands today, is, in spite of its universal promise, still a very ethnically charged and gendered enterprise.

can you agree with that or at least see why some can see it that way?

i think you already did but before we look for solutions to its problems we have to agree that it has some serious shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Enlightenment rationalism may never achieve that reconciliation either but I do believe (counter to the points in that article) that it at least aspires to it, even if only conceptually through the idea of a dialectic. The Enlightment can essentially settle on a 1-1 draw. Interectional Politics needs one group to win which by default means another group has to lose.

i did not write that article and that is not my point.

the article merely provides supplementation to my point, which is/was/ as i have been repeating: WHO is the subject of the enlightenment. who is the member in that club.

please take that article as supplementation to my argument not as its main thrust. i only posted the link because, the writer having being paid to write it, having more energy and resources at hand, and just ultimately being better at it, he provides ample documentation for what i wanted to say.

but his interpretation is not mine. mine is not his.

*i am not against the project of the enlightenment*

*i am for the enligtenment*

but i am against the ridiculous claim that its project has already been fulfilled and we shouldn’t rock the boat or complain

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
We're gonna have to fundamentally agree to disagree on that cos you can always point to problems within the Enlightenment (many of which I'll concede) but I'll still consider it preferable to Intersectional Politics.

again not what im saying, not stuck in this either/or dialectic

i’m for the synthesis of this temporary oppositon, and for analyzing why and where this comes from, not just blindly opposing it

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Apart from that, I'm sort of more interested in the real world problems of why the Dems have lost political ground, than going into abstract philosophizing that might underpin certain points but ends up a topic on its own.

it’s not abstract philosophizing.

in the real world, all the minorities left out of the enlightenment project are banging at the doors clamoring for access.

yes, some of those people banging at the doors want to destroy the club altogether. especially academics in the humanities. lol, the idiots.

that’s not me though.

me, i want universal admission. which we do not have right now.

that’s the real-world practical problem: extending those inalienable rights to those who have been originally and historically left out of it, shot, raped, hanged, discriminated against, bled dry, used, kept out to keep the inside “cozy and clean....”

it’s gonna be a messy process to adjust this membership though there has to be some tolerance for disorder and dissension.
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Old Today, 09:46 AM   #5015
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the "adults in the room" tell you to go eat your vegetables. You are to be seen and not heard
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Old Today, 10:25 AM   #5016
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Old Today, 12:45 PM   #5017
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Members of the right-wing group Patriot Prayer stationed themselves on a downtown Portland rooftop with a cache of guns prior to a summer protest, city officials announced for the first time Monday – the same day Mayor Ted Wheeler learned about it, his aides said.

That shocking revelation came Monday as Portland officials scrambled to find a way to end the repeated violent clashes between dueling political factions downtown.

Prior to the start of a scheduled Aug. 4 demonstration, "the Portland Police Bureau discovered individuals who positioned themselves on a rooftop parking structure in downtown Portland with a cache of firearms," Wheeler said during a City Hall press conference. Berk Nelson, a senior mayoral aide, later said the weapons included "long guns."

The people on the rooftop were members of Patriot Prayer, said Assistant Chief Ryan Lee, who appeared at the press conference with Wheeler and other police officials. Police officers seized the weapons found on the rooftop that day, but they were later given back. No arrests were made because the protesters had not broken any laws and all had licenses to carry concealed weapons, Lee said. Neither Lee nor Wheeler named the people who guns were seized from.
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