Hole - Nobody's daughter

knox · 05.12.2010, 01:07 PM

oh god, no. no.

when i saw her live in february i thought this could be ok.

no no cringe no.

its better than nothing tho.

tesla69 · 05.12.2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox

its better than nothing tho.

maybe silence is better in this situation.

infinitemusic · 05.12.2010, 01:55 PM

It's ... bad. At first I was slightly pleasantly surprised, but then I thought about it and realized just how wrong it was in every way. I mean, production-wise alone it's a fucking awful joke. I just can't describe how BAD the production is. Sometimes I find it hard to understand why Beinhorn has been working so long in the industry when he has this knack of either covering gold in shit or covering shit it gold, but then I realize that it's because the majority of people either don't care or enjoy this production when it's coming out of their radios. Well, they did in 1998. 12 years later I think it sounds fucking dated as hell. Celebrity Skin sounds fucking dated, so why is she using the same production techniques?

The songs themselves are better than Celebrity Skin because it seems like she's actually trying to confront the problems in her life instead of doing what she was doing before, but the lyrics are just as awkward and lazy, if not moreso.

I think with better production and less overworking with eighty billion producers and musicians, this could have been pretty good. The first song, the last song, and most of them, really, have potential that wasn't realized.

But my biggest problem with it is this intangible thing that's hard to describe. Something about it is so anti-rock music. And that's what Courtney was supposed to be good at. The same problem is on every America's Sweetheart song except for "Life Despite God". No soul, I guess? It's obvious that she's more concerned about making a name for herself and getting back into the papers and proving herself to her former bandmates than she is about making music that people actually want to listen to. The best way to really comprehend this is to read or listen to any interview with her. All she talks about is inane celebrity gossip and personal drama, and most of it is either boring, old, or totally unrelated to the content of the album.

She's more concerned about making albums that will sell well and will be reviewed well in the time they are released than just making a fucking album. A good one. And it's definitely not better than nothing. 2 of Hole's albums were really good. It's better to have a spot on 100% discography like the stooges than a discography like Black Sabbath or some shit. Let it die already and come back when you actually have some thing to say, Courtney.

knox · 05.12.2010, 02:01 PM

The lyrics are lazy, the songs are lazy, production is lazy.
celebrity skin is contrived, but songs are still much better.

eric must be really pissed off ( i would be)

the bandmates are ridiculous, wearing a beret probablt didn't even listen to hole back in the day. none of them are talented.

i suppose ur right.

but i meant that, for her, its probably better doing this than nothing at all (keeping busy)

Satan · 05.12.2010, 02:24 PM

no, no, a resounding no.
i saw her live like 2 weeks ago.....it was bad

the record is shit.

'dated' is right

infinitemusic · 05.12.2010, 03:16 PM

Yeah, the "bandmates" are ridiculous as hell, thanks for reminding me. It's like she was trying to get the 2nd-best Guns N Roses imitation to play for her or something. These people are beyond faceless, even compared to the other Hole lineups. And I think that's the point. The music mags don't even bother to pretend to interview Hole as a band anymore, it's always Courtney alone.

Compared to, say, Melissa, who probably stole the show a few times, and even Eric, who was quiet but thoughtful and insightful when he did speak, these people are ill-fitting to say the least, and absolutely absurd on so many levels. Like, what the hell is this Micko guy doing in her band? He's about 18, drugged out of his mind every show, a total hair metal cheeseball wearing a top hat in 2010, etc. Why is he in the fucking band? Why did he choose to be? Why did she choose him? Well, I know the answer to that one, it's like she's subconsciously trying to turn into Axl Rose. Listen to "Sunset Strip" and tell me I'm wrong.

They more I think about it, the sadder it is. That band had so much wasted potential. They could've been better than Nirvana but she was trying too hard to make them into Nirvana.

knox · 05.12.2010, 03:54 PM

this just shows eric was a good songwriter and all.

why axl rose? didn't he insult her etc etc etc and it was a big mess? unless she's trying to be a better axl rose than axl rose.

but i think it started out with stevie nicks, the songs were much more bearable acoustic then there's the sunny rock california thing and oh god.

when i saw them live in february i thought this album could be much better.

and why the hell? the cover of the album is part of the artwork in 'my body, the hand grenade'.

Better_Than_Deux · 05.12.2010, 04:00 PM

hole is coming to mpls and i can't wait to do something else that day.

tesla69 · 05.12.2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitemusic

Like, what the hell is this Micko guy doing in her band? He's about 18, drugged out of his mind every show,

you answered your own question. He's easily controlled.

infinitemusic · 05.12.2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox

this just shows eric was a good songwriter and all.

why axl rose? didn't he insult her etc etc etc and it was a big mess? unless she's trying to be a better axl rose than axl rose.

but i think it started out with stevie nicks, the songs were much more bearable acoustic then there's the sunny rock california thing and oh god.

when i saw them live in february i thought this album could be much better.

and why the hell? the cover of the album is part of the artwork in 'my body, the hand grenade'.

Even so, the best part of the album IS the cover art.

Satan · 05.12.2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox

and why the hell? the cover of the album is part of the artwork in 'my body, the hand grenade'.

yeah i noticed that too, it looks like some hole-tard made it in photoshop

Bal · 05.13.2010, 06:14 AM

i read in a review that theres a track on it called pacific coast highway (with billy corgan)
is that a cover of the sy song?

atsonicpark · 05.13.2010, 06:23 AM

I wish Hole would fall in a hole.

nicfit · 05.13.2010, 06:24 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific...way_%28song%29

the internetz sez no, Bal!

Bal · 05.13.2010, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicfit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific...way_%28song%29

the internetz sez no, Bal!

oh. thanks
i didnt know it was a single.
i'd thought it was actually a cover of the sy song, cause i know Courtney used to be a big sister fan (i saw an interview with her in her home, and in the background there was a huuuge sister poster) .. but she probably hates sy now..

atsonicpark · 05.13.2010, 08:15 AM

She's too drugged up to know who she hates.

infinitemusic · 05.13.2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bal

i read in a review that theres a track on it called pacific coast highway (with billy corgan)
is that a cover of the sy song?

This is a perfect example of how idiotic and ignorant the music press is. Fuck 'em

Anyway, yeah Courtney was a huge SY fan at one point. Didn't you ever listen to their early music? That's what got me into SY

knox · 05.13.2010, 07:48 PM

yes pretty on the inside is pretty good.
i wish there was more of that.

wellcharge · 05.13.2010, 08:24 PM

there is 2 references to band member hats within this thread

05.12.2010, 01:03 PM	#1
infinitemusic the destroyed room Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 569	yes?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.12.2010, 01:07 PM	#2
knox invito al cielo Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,255	oh god, no. no. when i saw her live in february i thought this could be ok. no no cringe no. its better than nothing tho. __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.12.2010, 01:55 PM	#4
infinitemusic the destroyed room Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 569	It's ... bad. At first I was slightly pleasantly surprised, but then I thought about it and realized just how wrong it was in every way. I mean, production-wise alone it's a fucking awful joke. I just can't describe how BAD the production is. Sometimes I find it hard to understand why Beinhorn has been working so long in the industry when he has this knack of either covering gold in shit or covering shit it gold, but then I realize that it's because the majority of people either don't care or enjoy this production when it's coming out of their radios. Well, they did in 1998. 12 years later I think it sounds fucking dated as hell. Celebrity Skin sounds fucking dated, so why is she using the same production techniques? The songs themselves are better than Celebrity Skin because it seems like she's actually trying to confront the problems in her life instead of doing what she was doing before, but the lyrics are just as awkward and lazy, if not moreso. I think with better production and less overworking with eighty billion producers and musicians, this could have been pretty good. The first song, the last song, and most of them, really, have potential that wasn't realized. But my biggest problem with it is this intangible thing that's hard to describe. Something about it is so anti-rock music. And that's what Courtney was supposed to be good at. The same problem is on every America's Sweetheart song except for "Life Despite God". No soul, I guess? It's obvious that she's more concerned about making a name for herself and getting back into the papers and proving herself to her former bandmates than she is about making music that people actually want to listen to. The best way to really comprehend this is to read or listen to any interview with her. All she talks about is inane celebrity gossip and personal drama, and most of it is either boring, old, or totally unrelated to the content of the album. She's more concerned about making albums that will sell well and will be reviewed well in the time they are released than just making a fucking album. A good one. And it's definitely not better than nothing. 2 of Hole's albums were really good. It's better to have a spot on 100% discography like the stooges than a discography like Black Sabbath or some shit. Let it die already and come back when you actually have some thing to say, Courtney.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.12.2010, 02:01 PM	#5
knox invito al cielo Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,255	The lyrics are lazy, the songs are lazy, production is lazy. celebrity skin is contrived, but songs are still much better. eric must be really pissed off ( i would be) the bandmates are ridiculous, wearing a beret probablt didn't even listen to hole back in the day. none of them are talented. i suppose ur right. but i meant that, for her, its probably better doing this than nothing at all (keeping busy) __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.12.2010, 02:24 PM	#6
Satan invito al cielo Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: noo yawk Posts: 6,331	no, no, a resounding no. i saw her live like 2 weeks ago.....it was bad the record is shit. 'dated' is right
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.12.2010, 03:16 PM	#7
infinitemusic the destroyed room Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 569	Yeah, the "bandmates" are ridiculous as hell, thanks for reminding me. It's like she was trying to get the 2nd-best Guns N Roses imitation to play for her or something. These people are beyond faceless, even compared to the other Hole lineups. And I think that's the point. The music mags don't even bother to pretend to interview Hole as a band anymore, it's always Courtney alone. Compared to, say, Melissa, who probably stole the show a few times, and even Eric, who was quiet but thoughtful and insightful when he did speak, these people are ill-fitting to say the least, and absolutely absurd on so many levels. Like, what the hell is this Micko guy doing in her band? He's about 18, drugged out of his mind every show, a total hair metal cheeseball wearing a top hat in 2010, etc. Why is he in the fucking band? Why did he choose to be? Why did she choose him? Well, I know the answer to that one, it's like she's subconsciously trying to turn into Axl Rose. Listen to "Sunset Strip" and tell me I'm wrong. They more I think about it, the sadder it is. That band had so much wasted potential. They could've been better than Nirvana but she was trying too hard to make them into Nirvana.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.12.2010, 03:54 PM	#8
knox invito al cielo Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,255	this just shows eric was a good songwriter and all. why axl rose? didn't he insult her etc etc etc and it was a big mess? unless she's trying to be a better axl rose than axl rose. but i think it started out with stevie nicks, the songs were much more bearable acoustic then there's the sunny rock california thing and oh god. when i saw them live in february i thought this album could be much better. and why the hell? the cover of the album is part of the artwork in 'my body, the hand grenade'. __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.12.2010, 04:00 PM	#9
Better_Than_Deux children of satan Join Date: May 2009 Location: minnesota Posts: 325	hole is coming to mpls and i can't wait to do something else that day. __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.13.2010, 06:14 AM	#13
Bal the end of the ugly Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Budapest city Posts: 1,011	i read in a review that theres a track on it called pacific coast highway (with billy corgan) is that a cover of the sy song? __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.13.2010, 06:23 AM	#14
atsonicpark invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 28,843	I wish Hole would fall in a hole. __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.13.2010, 06:24 AM	#15
nicfit invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: banana boat Posts: 15,570	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific...way_%28song%29 the internetz sez no, Bal! __________________ 11:11 11-11-11 I Ascended.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.13.2010, 08:15 AM	#17
atsonicpark invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 28,843	She's too drugged up to know who she hates. __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.13.2010, 07:48 PM	#19
knox invito al cielo Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,255	yes pretty on the inside is pretty good. i wish there was more of that. __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.13.2010, 08:24 PM	#20
wellcharge expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: cold and boring kanada Posts: 1,297	there is 2 references to band member hats within this thread
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|