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Old 07.15.2011, 07:48 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Watcher
I just wanted to talk about fucking Alice Coltrane

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Old 07.15.2011, 08:51 PM   #82
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She is pretty hot....... I find her quite fetching on the cover of Universal Consciousness.......
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Old 07.16.2011, 02:31 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
Mortte Jousimo:

Puhutteko te Suomalainen?

The member of Jefferson Airplane you're thinking of is Paul Kantner, who said that you can't play guitar on acid because the strings look like they're a foot thick.

***

Anyways, the whole reason I started this thread was to discuss non-drug related psychedelia. I really don't see why those who want to discuss drugs insist on invading this thread instead of starting their own thread, which I won't visit. These people have completely derailed this discussion, and have frustrated my purpose in creating this thread to the point that they have effectively censored me.

Kyllä, olen suomalainen ja puhun suomea. Because Finnish belongs into another language family, I have still lots of problems with English.

I understand your point wholly. I think also itīs quite boring when talking about psychedelic music, someone brings always drugs there. There has been quite recently a thread about music and drugs, so I canīt understand why there canīt be thread just about psychedelic music, because I think there is lots of talking about without drugs. I think also it is important to talk about drugs because they can really make some people seriously sick, but all who want to talk about drugs can make it some other thread.

But I add one comment with drugs. Even Beatles wouldnīt have make "Tomorrow never knows" without acid, I donīt believe drugs are the source of creativity. All the hippies who used acid didnīt make such a masterpieces. And Beatles soon stopped take acid and made such masterpieces like "White album" and "Abbey Road".
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Old 07.20.2011, 12:09 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo
Kyllä, olen suomalainen ja puhun suomea. Because Finnish belongs into another language family, I have still lots of problems with English.

I understand your point wholly. I think also itīs quite boring when talking about psychedelic music, someone brings always drugs there. There has been quite recently a thread about music and drugs, so I canīt understand why there canīt be thread just about psychedelic music, because I think there is lots of talking about without drugs. I think also it is important to talk about drugs because they can really make some people seriously sick, but all who want to talk about drugs can make it some other thread.

But I add one comment with drugs. Even Beatles wouldnīt have make "Tomorrow never knows" without acid, I donīt believe drugs are the source of creativity. All the hippies who used acid didnīt make such a masterpieces. And Beatles soon stopped take acid and made such masterpieces like "White album" and "Abbey Road".
\


Point is....even if The Beatles STOPPED taking acid before some of their more psychedelic albums, that is despite the point because they were already changed as a result of having had already experienced what comes along with the drug.

The rediculous thing about this thread is NOT non-drug users attempting to identify with what is generally perceived as a historically important aspect of drug culture (cough cough..."psychedelic music"), but thinking drugs shouldn't be discussed on any level in such a thread. It's silly.

Jimi Hendrix
The Beatles
Eric Clapton
Jimmy Page
Jefferson Airshit
The Doors


And lets not forget these artists were obviously influenced by other artists who themselves were not alien to drugs.

And let's not even get into The Butthole Surfers and the like,

The whole concept pf drugs can not be escaped when it comes to listening to said music

"Psychedelic rock (sometimes psychedelia) is a style of rock music that is inspired or influenced by psychedelic culture and attempts to replicate and enhance the mind-altering experiences of psychedelic drugs"...

Sounds pretty accurate to me. It's not always about doing drugs while creating music, but the effects drugs can have on an individual while creating who may have not have taken drugs in years.

Shit, I'm sure at least 2 of the four members of Sonic Youth have taken acid (or at least, they've said as much). I'm sure at least one of them still smokes pot. Whatever. Talking shit about drugs (which was done long before I came in with a second opinion) is just silly. If ya don't support drugs on any level, why listen to music so obviously influenced by them? Lame as saying some bullshit like "Yeah, Jesus was pretty cool but the bible is lame". Makes all of zero sense.
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Old 07.20.2011, 01:26 AM   #85
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"Yeah, Jesus was pretty cool but the bible is lame"

I was not going to reply anymore, but this last sentence made me to do it. Because I think thereīs lots of sense what Jesus said (well maybe He said something thatīs very opposite what Iīm thinking) but then thereīs lots of things in the bible I will not ever accept (for example the sentences against homosexuals).

I donīt believe no-one has said that drugs didnīt influence on sixties music. I think the point is that you can discuss it without mentioning drugs. I think itīs the same, if you want to discuss just Jimi Hendrix music without taking there heīs personal history. And again, I believe Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jefferson Airhorse and the Doors would have made great music without drugs altough It may have sounded a lot different. They were talents when they were born, drugs didnīt make them talents. And if I canīt listen to some artists for shit theyīve done (I donīt mean just drug using) I think there will not be anyone real talent to listen (Bay City Rollers? New Kids on the block?).
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Old 07.20.2011, 02:13 AM   #86
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Totally agree. In the same way, when I discuss these musicians I seldom ever steer the conversation away from their music (as Jimi's was that good....)...but then again, this isn't a thread about Jimi. It's a thread about psychedelic music. I suspect any/every documentary on the subject mentions drugs.

Also, a fact....most artists who have used drugs, their music tends to get worse after they stop. Not always the case, but mostly the case for damned sure. I think there was a thread about that once.
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Old 07.20.2011, 02:46 AM   #87
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Thereīs also some whose art have changed better after "drugs". Well I donīt know is Tom Waits nowdays totally sober, but when he stopped drink like he did in the seventies, he also did his best records and his material has become even better at least in my opinion. Beefheart also made great records in eighties and I believe he didnīt use acid anymore. And I donīt know about Nick Caveīs nowdays drugusing (I think itīs not as heavy as it was), but I think his latest records are at least almost as good as those he made while drugusing. And I think many drugusers who are also musicians donīt have any choises (for example Keith Richards) I think it is going to die or stop using. In my mind there comes no musician who have continued use drugs after sixties and made still great records (or even staying alive).
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Old 07.20.2011, 02:59 AM   #88
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The Stones have totally sucked since they stopped. Their music got better once they started using, then went to total shit. Jimi died. Zeppelins music DEFINITELY started going downhill (yeah, they were more of a 70's band, but still...same difference). Iggy's music went to total shit. Only recently has his stuff gotten a bit better (I thought his last solo attempt was really good). Bowie definitely put out his share of shit albums. I mean...really it doesn't matter.

There are those who generally stay away from drugs who have put out fantastic records, but it seems as if the drugs themselves have played a large roll in keeping the music of many interesting. Just a matter of opinion.
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Old 07.20.2011, 03:14 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
This is actually a good forum for this discussion, as SY's sound definitely has a psychedelic aspect to it.

Everybody seems to think that psychedelic music only has to do with drugs, without realizing that monastic plainsong (like Gregorian chant and similar music from religions around the world) is the original psychedelic music. Alanis Morissette's "Still" represents a modern pop-music version of spiritual psychedelia, as does George Harrison's "Within You Without You".

Many of the scriptures of the religions of the world contain a psychedelic aspect as well, such as the Gospel According to St. John and the Book of Revelation.

So, lay off the weed and pick up the sitar!

Also, please...elaborate on what you find to be psychedelic about the books of John and Revelation.....
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Old 07.20.2011, 07:29 AM   #90
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Holy shit..... I've never seen anyone miss the fucking point of a thread so blatantly........ how can some fucking asshole steer a thread about Pran Nath, Alice Coltrane and Pharaoh Sanders into a fucking discussion of later era Stones.........
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Old 07.20.2011, 05:33 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Watcher
Why don't you go make your own thread about how drugs are great or whatever....... this thread is supposed to be about how great Alice Coltrane and Joe Henderson are.......

"Elements" is an awesome album, with some proto-hip-hop on the last track...
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Old 07.20.2011, 07:11 PM   #92
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Yeah Joe Henderson went from pretty average Sonny Rollins-esque Blue Note bop to some out there shit once he grew a beard. I always thought he was kind of dull (Page One era, as a sideman) from his early playing until I heard Point Of Departure and then checked out his later work.... what a 180!!
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Old 07.21.2011, 06:13 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Watcher
Holy shit..... I've never seen anyone miss the fucking point of a thread so blatantly........ how can some fucking asshole steer a thread about Pran Nath, Alice Coltrane and Pharaoh Sanders into a fucking discussion of later era Stones.........

I think you should research psychedelic music more.
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Old 07.21.2011, 07:28 AM   #94
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I will not enter into a discussion so incredibly stupid.......
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Old 07.21.2011, 09:46 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ann ashtray
The Stones have totally sucked since they stopped. Their music got better once they started using, then went to total shit. Jimi died. Zeppelins music DEFINITELY started going downhill (yeah, they were more of a 70's band, but still...same difference). Iggy's music went to total shit. Only recently has his stuff gotten a bit better (I thought his last solo attempt was really good). Bowie definitely put out his share of shit albums. I mean...really it doesn't matter.

There are those who generally stay away from drugs who have put out fantastic records, but it seems as if the drugs themselves have played a large roll in keeping the music of many interesting. Just a matter of opinion.

I have to disagree with Stones (Also I think Bowie has made some interesting records after seventies). Of course I admit that Stones made their greatest records while using drugs, but they have also made great records afterwards. I would have been sad, if Richards had died in heroin and they hadnīt made those records. But Iīm a big Stones fan and I know many thinks opposite way.

As a matter of fact I have a long thought that "Sex, drugs and Rīnīr" sucks. I donīt have anything against sex or even drugusing, but I mean that Rīn`r artist need lots of sex and use lots of drugs to become a real Rīn`r-artist. Same kind of opinion is "true art comes only from suffering". Of course experience affects to oneīs creativity, but there are many more experiences in life you can use. If some artist really believes, he canīt do a great art without drugs or suffering, itīs ok to me. But there are many at least amatour musicians who seem to think they are not real rīnīr-musicians without drugs and start to use them only for that. I was in a gig with a band a long time ago and there was also another band who seemed to live rīnīr live fully. It was sad to watch. They planned to buy a bus and go on tour altough it was their third gig. They went on nothing.

I think artists use drugs in the sixties and seventies a lot just because everybody did it in the music bisnes that time. All who didnīt use were odd. Bill Wyman was one of those and his bandmates made him a practical joke. At his birthday they made him hassiscake and he vomitted the rest of the day. I donīt find that funny.
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Old 07.21.2011, 01:41 PM   #96
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I think that a lot of psychedelic music comes across as a caned stab in the dark at spirituality, and as such The Watcher talking about Sanders and such is probably nearer the mark than pop and rockstars dropping a couple of tabs and talking to God.

Speaking of which, my favourite spiritualist psychedelia comes from Tsurubami, one of the innumerable Acid Mother's Temple offshoots, whose guiding principle is along the lines of "by instigating the natures of the 5 elements can we transcend and come to meet the Buddha?". Now that IS spiritual, attempting to use music, not drugs (though the respective members have, in the past, used drugs) as a vehicle of legitimate transcendence. More importantly they are fucking AWESOME. Mindblowing freepsych, big fat guitar that eats everything in its path, feedbacking into eternity, abstract expressionist drum pallet shading, deep down undertow bass, bits of Can and Coltrane and some of that Deep Listening by Oliveros et al, bits of traditional Japanese sound too. and, as they proudly proclaim on the album covers, 'NO OVERDUBS'.

Any one familiar?
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Old 07.22.2011, 09:41 AM   #97
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Old 07.24.2011, 06:25 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Also, please...elaborate on what you find to be psychedelic about the books of John and Revelation.....


Allow me here to elaborate:

The Gospel According to S. John

Chapter One

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

***

I'd like to hear Pink Floyd come up with that!


The Revelation of S. John the Divine

Chapter Five

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
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Old 07.24.2011, 06:50 AM   #99
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And let's not forget the '60's psychedelia bearing an anti-drug message. Here's my favorite example, especially poignant in the wake of the loss which music suffered yesterday, in which the speaker refers to the lover he can't get off his mind, but can't accept because she's a pothead ("I see your eyes/ a funny kind of yellow"), in the context of the figures in the paintings of L. S. Lowry (i.e., not complete people, but mere "matchstick men" occupying a bleak landscape):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHejhUFFX7w
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Old 08.14.2011, 03:47 AM   #100
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Interesting topic of discussion -Robert Schunk. I would somewhat agree about your comment about Gregorian chants. Although sound existed in in different ways before "chants" ever came into play. George is my Favorite Beatle.
and i love "within you without you"- with all my heart- but i think my fav beatles album is *white album.*anyway...
nice post man
-i agree with the 2 or 3 points you have made. EXCEPT-
""always puff the herb""
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