[summer]

This is actually a serious topic from me >.>

I decided I would put on my Sonic Youth albums in iTunes on repeat, and listening to songs from Goo, it makes me realize what it is I don't like about The Eternal (again this may have something to do with the 128 sound quality, who really knows). But perhaps The Eternal just has a production that doesn't lend itself to the music?


Listening to "Disappearer" it seems like the reason I LOVE this song is because of how it sounds. This same song could have been on "The Eternal" and likely sucked to my ears thanks to the recent production they're going for. Now, this is kind of a conundrum, because I actually truly enjoy the way their songs sound lately. It's just the content of them that is lacking?

Regardless of if you do or do not like The Eternal, I'd just like an opinion, how much of a role does production go in influencing what songs you like?

[ZEROpumpkins]

Goo has really cheesy production by today's standards, but back then that was pretty normal for major label records.

Also did anyone else think that the production on RR was crap? (in before "the whole thing was crap")

[pbradley]

Depends on the song. Indian Summer's "Orchard" is perhaps their worst produced song (the vocals are barely noticeable and too much compression) but it is still my favorite song of theirs. But other songs can be far more dependent on production, which I usually don't like but there are a lot exceptions.

Good production can make a good song better but it can't make a shit song tolerable.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by ZEROpumpkins

Also did anyone else think that the production on RR was crap? (in before "the whole thing was crap")

I liked the production on Rather Ripped. It sounded very full, soft, and competent which was the point.

[Jeremy]

Production can make or break songs (And albums) to me. I hate the way Nevermind sounds; It's so overproduced and glossy but the songs themselves are great. On the other hand, a part of the charm of Surfer Rosa is how raw and violent it sounds. Even a bad song like Tony's Theme SOUNDS good, with the crazy distortion sound Joey gets on it.

Maybe this is just me, but the production on each album gives it it's own world. Say Loveless.... Some of the songs on it aren't that great, but the way it sounds is crazy. It has it's own feel, it's own universe inside of it. A song like "When You Sleep" brings me to a different place every time I hear it, it's otherworldly, and honestly that's one of the points a record should make: To bring you to a different place unlike any other album you own, to have it's own distinct sound.

Some of the best records have a sound unique to their own, like You're Living All Over Me... Daydream Nation.... Slanted and Enchanted.... In The Valley Of Dying Stars.... Disintegration.... Spiderland.... Etc, etc, etc, etc. Hopefully you get the point and I can stop looking like a jackass.

~Jeremy~

[greedrex]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

I can stop looking like a jackass.

~Jeremy~

but you don't look like a jackass, dOOd.

~The Rex~

[pbradley]

It's funny that you should mention those albums transporting you to another world because most of those albums, to me, feel so solid that I can barely listen to them anymore. Like they don't have an openness about them that I can listen to them regardless of the weather or the mood I'm in. They become so involved with the context of my life that when I move on, I can't bring them with me.

[atsonicpark]

Good! Another Summer thread! Keep 'em comin!

Don't really give a shit about production when it comes to a critical evaluation of an album's worth... it doesn't really matter to me in the long run, and really, I'd probably rather listen to something underproduced than overproduced. Well, actually, I'd rather the songs be good than the production. Either way, I think most of "Goo" sounds like shit (and not in a good way) compared to all the other SY albums, aside from maybe "Sister". My favorite production on an SY release is probably "NYC Ghosts and Flowers". I dunno, I haven't given it much though since it doesn't really matter to me.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by pbradley

It's funny that you should mention those albums transporting you to another world because most of those albums, to me, feel so solid that I can barely listen to them anymore. Like they don't have an openness about them that I can listen to them regardless of the weather or the mood I'm in. They become so involved with the context of my life that when I move on, I can't bring them with me.

I know what you mean. This is in a different category all together, but kinda related in some sense, I never listen to any of my, say... top ten favorite records ever. Maybe because I've listened to them so much, absorbed them so much, I just want to listen to something else. Sometimes I find it really odd, but unfortunately I don't have too much time to listen to music these days anyway so in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter too much right now.

"but you don't look like a jackass, dOOd.

~The Rex~"

Thanks, I appreciate that. I thought I came off looking snobby or some crap like that....

~Jeremy~

[dionysusundone]

Production ruined Rather Ripped I thought. While the songs weren't all there to begin with, they could've used a more lo-fi approach to make it a bit more of the punk-y pop album I think SY were going for. (I could be wrong) What ended up happening on that album was basically an hour of sugarshinedpolishedturds.

[ZEROpumpkins]

Originally Posted by pbradley

I liked the production on Rather Ripped. It sounded very full, soft, and competent which was the point.

I disagree, just seems full of compression. Maybe my copy is crap.

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by ZEROpumpkins

I disagree, just seems full of compression. Maybe my copy is crap.

i think you mixed up your rather ripped copy with your merzbox

[atsonicpark]

Ah, the merzbox. What an amazing work of music.

[ZEROpumpkins]

I wish I had the money for that fucking box.
1930 can only rape your ears so much.

[atsonicpark]

You May Be White But You're Honorary Black
Honorary Black Pride
Fightin' For What's Inside


"this Is For Thourgood Marshell, Don Cheadle!"

[Kyohan]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Ah, the merzbox. What an amazing work of music.

Yet you think production isn't important? Production is an absolutely vital element in Merzbow's sound IMO. The dynamics rely heavily on the mix and mastering.
Its hard to generalise though. Sometimes production is important, sometimes it isn't. It depends on all kinds of thing - the sounds and instrumentation used, the arrangements, the method of playback, etc, etc.
In terms of SY, I consider the production to be very important. Even on the early, more cheaply produced material, they always went out of their way to get a good sound.
Incidentally, I think the production sounds great on The Eternal - any limitations are probably down to the stream-rate.

[muttlegs]

Many times flash production is immediately pleasing but becomes annoying after a few listens. I think production on The Eternal sounds quite honest and open but not to the point of annoyance. The fact everybody is listening to a compressed stream can't help.
Somebody should start a topic The Eternal streamed, robbed, on CD or double vinyl: which sounds the best?

[atsonicpark]

Merzbow has an understanding of stereophonics and layering, that doesn't mean he knows anything about "production". Anybody can, technically, do the stuff he does, with the most basic understanding of producing. I love Merzbow, but I wouldn't call his no-fi sound "produced" except in the most basic extreme sense of the word. I mean, let me load up Goldwave (1mb windows program), pan some sounds left and right, and make the volume 999%. There! I'm just as important as Merzbow!

...I'm just kidding and generalising and I hope my humor isn't lost on you, but I'm just saying... a good song transcends bad production, and good production can't save a bad song. (pbradley said something similiar to this in this thread, I said something similiar to that in another thread) In Merzbow, terms like "production" and "songs" don't even really mean anything. I have been producing music for 10 years. It gives me a headache.

[greedrex]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

a good song transcends bad production, and good production can't save a bad song.

/end of thread.

[Kyohan]

Originally Posted by greedrex

/end of thread.

\reopening thread

but good production can make a good song better, and bad production can do it an injustice.
Good points though, atsonicpark - and its kind of what I was getting at initially. How important "production" is, raises all kinds of questions - what exactly is meant by "production" for one.
I'm sure with 10 years of making music behind you, you don't truly believe that its completely irrelevant; but I take the point that its secondary to the music. How far secondary, depends on the factors I mentioned in my last post.