[Genteel Death]

It will be a bit more difficult to put people on the line up this year for me, I'm afraid. And I'm even more afraid it will be people I'm actually friends with.

[Florya]

That's a shame G.

I've changed my mind about wanting to play anyway.
I just don't appreciate being treated like a nuisance child by the organisers.
All I wanted was a yes or no answer from them, and all I've had is a cursory brush off, and then silence.

Considering the shit we had to put up with last year, and the promises that were made to us because of it, I think we've been treated pretty shabbily.

That's no reflection on you G. I know you've done your best on our behalf.

[Genteel Death]

I disagree with that Jeff. Every single time I checked with Keran last year he stressed that nothing, apart from playing, was promised to any bands. That it didn't seem like the most organised festival in the world I agree with, sure. Anyway, I've had a good time, and so have others. If I could help putting Listening Mirror on the line up, that'd be cool. If I can't, we're adults etc.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

I disagree with that Jeff. Every single time I checked with Keran last year he stressed that nothing, apart from playing, was promised to any bands. That it didn't seem like the most organised festival in the world I agree with, sure. Anyway, I've had a good time, and so have others. If I could help putting Listening Mirror on the line up, that'd be cool. If I can't, we're adults etc.

G. The promises were made after last years festival. You know how much we were messed about.

We were moved around the running order so much that our heads were spinning, only to turn up on the Friday afternoon to be told that we had missed our slot because the running order had been changed again (while we were driving to the site!) and no one saw fit to phone us to let us know.

We were then given three other slots, all of which were cancelled (one almost ended up with us having a fight with a dj in a caravan) before we finally were squeezed in at lunchtime on Saturday.

At the time Keran was very apologetic and gave us his word that if we wanted to come again next year he would not only ensure that the same thing didn't happen again, but that we would have a better slot in the running order.

That's why I put our name forward for this years festival - only to be told that they didn't want to run a repeat of last years line-up, at the same time as they were confirming on their FB page at least 4 of last years bands would be playing again this year! I'm sure you can see why I wasn't best pleased.

I was told to wait until the contact email address was posted, and then make an application to play. I did. Heard nothing back. Then, a few weeks later they put a reminder up on their FB page telling bands that wanted to play to email them. I did. Once again I heard nothing back.

So I've taken the hint.

All it would have taken was the courtesy of a reply to either of my emails to say 'sorry guys, cant fit you in this year' and I would have been disappointed but satisfied.

[Derek]

I guess I shouldn't expect any reply then. Sigh.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by Derek

I guess I shouldn't expect any reply then. Sigh.

Hey Derek!
I wouldn't have thought that our experience was typical. At least I hope not.

[Derek]

It does raise a point that a lot of people in the underground scene seem a tad yellow-bellied. I would rather much prefer to be told something honest and upfront than being filled with empty promises or lies. People's musical projects are very personal things and a messing around of that can be very detrimental to a person's feelings. I remember at one point there was a guy emailing me saying he was starting a new label and wanted to release something of mine. Months went by and he kept emailing me saying he'd get 'right on it' and then I ended up getting a bunch of bullshit like "I was couch surfing, just out of surgery, I'm broke etc", even if those are all very well and true then how come he logged into myspace everyday? I would have been much more happy and understanding with him just saying, "I'm not ready to start my own label yet". Be honest and upfront... never circle around the bush.

Artists have goals and aspirations and providing false promises just hinders someone's progress.

This probably isn't completely tied to the Supernormal festival and it's definitely nothing to do with you Gab, I'm just venting.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by Derek

It does raise a point that a lot of people in the underground scene seem a tad yellow-bellied. I would rather much prefer to be told something honest and upfront than being filled with empty promises or lies. People's musical projects are very personal things and a messing around of that can be very detrimental to a person's feelings. I remember at one point there was a guy emailing me saying he was starting a new label and wanted to release something of mine. Months went by and he kept emailing me saying he'd get 'right on it' and then I ended up getting a bunch of bullshit like "I was couch surfing, just out of surgery, I'm broke etc", even if those are all very well and true then how come he logged into myspace everyday? I would have been much more happy and understanding with him just saying, "I'm not ready to start my own label yet". Be honest and upfront... never circle around the bush.

Artists have goals and aspirations and providing false promises just hinders someone's progress.

This probably isn't completely tied to the Supernormal festival and it's definitely nothing to do with you Gab, I'm just venting.

Well said Derek.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Florya

G. The promises were made after last years festival. You know how much we were messed about.

We were moved around the running order so much that our heads were spinning, only to turn up on the Friday afternoon to be told that we had missed our slot because the running order had been changed again (while we were driving to the site!) and no one saw fit to phone us to let us know.

We were then given three other slots, all of which were cancelled (one almost ended up with us having a fight with a dj in a caravan) before we finally were squeezed in at lunchtime on Saturday.

At the time Keran was very apologetic and gave us his word that if we wanted to come again next year he would not only ensure that the same thing didn't happen again, but that we would have a better slot in the running order.

That's why I put our name forward for this years festival - only to be told that they didn't want to run a repeat of last years line-up, at the same time as they were confirming on their FB page at least 4 of last years bands would be playing again this year! I'm sure you can see why I wasn't best pleased.

I was told to wait until the contact email address was posted, and then make an application to play. I did. Heard nothing back. Then, a few weeks later they put a reminder up on their FB page telling bands that wanted to play to email them. I did. Once again I heard nothing back.

So I've taken the hint.

All it would have taken was the courtesy of a reply to either of my emails to say 'sorry guys, cant fit you in this year' and I would have been disappointed but satisfied.

Jeff, all I gather from your posts is that perhaps Supernormal isn't your kind of festival. And that's fair enough, I'm sure there are some out there that are more established and suit yours or Derek's artistic sensibilities. All the best from me.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Jeff, all I gather from your posts is that perhaps Supernormal isn't your kind of festival. And that's fair enough, I'm sure there are some out there that are more established and suit yours or Derek's artistic sensibilities. All the best from me.

Supernormal was exactly my kind of festival G. I'm surprised at your patronising tone.

You know precisely what went on last year and I'm surprised that you're trying to make out that somehow it was our fault for choosing to help out at the 'wrong kind' of festival.

It's not the 'type' of festival I'm complaining about.

It's not even about the poor organisation - I have every sympathy for the people that put on these events, it must be a nightmare.

My gripe is about the lack of candour and honesty shown to people who were volunteering their services to help get a fledgling project off the ground.
On top of the crap we endured trying to get a slot to play in, we were told there was accomodation, secure storage and that we would, at the very least, be reimbursed for petrol money.
None of this happened.
It was only at the very last minute that I discovered that the 'accomodation' was an empty field for us to pitch a tent in, and the 'secure storage' was the boot of my car.

We were misinformed in order to get us to sign up and treated like nuisance children from then on.

And to top it all we were lied to about 'definitely playing again this year' by one of the organisers. Even you though that it was 'obvious' that we would play (see reply #191 on this thread)

I really hope that the organisers are more honest with the performers this time.

It may have been Listening Mirror's first gig, but it certainly wasn't mine or Kate's.
It will definitely be the last time we volunteer to play at Supernormal.

[Genteel Death]

Let's put it this way, you're the only one who's still going on about it. I wasn't been patronising at all. You think I was etc etc.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Let's put it this way, you're the only one who's still going on about it. I wasn't been patronising at all. You think I was etc etc.

The only reason I'm the 'only one still going on about it' is because I'm the only one here that it happened to.

But if you think that kind of behaviour is OK, then I guess there's nothing more to say.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Jeff, all I gather from your posts is that perhaps Supernormal isn't your kind of festival. And that's fair enough, I'm sure there are some out there that are more established and suit yours or Derek's artistic sensibilities. All the best from me.

I didn't say anything about my 'artistic sensibilities' or really talk ill of the festival at all. All I said was that they should be more upfront to Florya, whatev.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Florya

The only reason I'm the 'only one still going on about it' is because I'm the only one here that it happened to.

But if you think that kind of behaviour is OK, then I guess there's nothing more to say.

I understand that you're upset about it, and I understand apologies were also made to you before. Mistakes can happen, particularly with a festival that's just starting out. What I don't really get is why you can't understand that with an overwhelming demand from bands that want to play, confirming everyone or giving an immediate response isn't so easy. Nobody involved in the organisation of the festival is getting paid to do it, that's not just the bands. This and also the pressure that comes with putting it together and incorporate it into what started as a workshop for artists. As you mentioned, you aren't new to playing live, so you must know already how difficult it is sometimes to put on a normal gig together. Imagine what it is like to organise something like this. Again, I respect your point of view, but you're not being forthcoming to that of the festival's organisers. I too have been messed around before by someone whose radio show I still listen to weekly, as it's one of my favourite. I wasted time and money sending out cds to someone who emailed me unsolicited asking me to play my music on his show. After giving me the wrong address not once but twice, he finally got it and never bothered playing it. People let you down sometimes but I'm too thick-skinned to let it get on the way of enjoying the things I enjoy.

[Derek]

I received an email back that said:
"We have a couple of things that could fit in with your music.
1. is a 36 hour improvised music performance who are open to involvement.
2. we are having a mix-tape themed tent - you mentioned you have tapes?"

Nice of them to email me back, I'm not sure if those things are worth all that travelling though, unfortunately.

[Genteel Death]

Promoting yourself is always a bitch when you can't do it yourself.

[Savage Clone]

I run a three-day festival every year, and I plan out set times and lineup order weeks beforehand. It saves a lot of stress.

[Genteel Death]

Yeah, but that's organised by musicians. This is not if you read the description. Also, good for you!

[Savage Clone]

I don't have a dog in this fight (as we say here). I was just saying that it seems logical to do that. Perhaps musicians organizing a music festival is a good thing on occasion; I would think that would actually be worse most of the time! We musicians are not the most responsible or organized group of people in the world...

[Genteel Death]

I generally think most people are not good at organising anything, painfully fastidious person that I am. Whatchagonnado?