[infinitemusic]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i dont think kathleen hanna or lydia or patti or yoshimi or courtney or jennifer finch or kim gordon or tobi vail or whoever else would be nearly as cool if theyed "learned" their trade from some fuckin' camp. rock doesnt work like that.


holy shit...can someone really picture courtney love or even a male (think iggy or kurt or thurston) learning to be a "rocker". the whole thing is just silly.

Basically, this.

I agree entirely in that their thoughts and feelings are those that belong to them and cannot be taught. But sometimes, especially when growing up in a world full of distractions and diversions, that some road blocks on the way to being able to express it can get in the way.

See, here's the thing: if they're so easily distracted, they probably don't really want to communicate and they probably don't have the passion to make good music. Or good anything. Writers often say that they don't really want to write, they HAVE to write to get it all out and then get over it. It's the same thing with music to a lot of people, and the simple fact is, the money behind it kind of changes that balance to where there will be people who want to get famous or rich, so they'll write songs kind of as an afterthought. I'm not saying these girls will be like that, but it's sort of a similar thing. If they need to make music, they will make music no matter what, even if they can't play a single chord (Lydia Lunch) and that's the type of music I want to hear.

..And I say all of this a guy who is extremely into female-made music. On top of the usual stuff like Stooges and Nirvana and Black Sabbath I'm hugely into Babes in Toyland, Patti Smith, Hole and even some totally unstereotypical stuff like Tori Amos. Seriously, I listen to Hole's first album practically every day. But these chicks made this music regardless of what people told them they could or should do. They didn't need permission, they just did it. And that's one of the things I like about it so much.

[Satan]

what i'm saying is that if you teach yourself you have a lot more room to grow and develop your own style, because who the fuck wants to be like someone else?

[alteredcourse]

i dont know, maybe you should feel lucky to have had a dad, or have had a dad that played guitar, or have had a dad that approved of playing guitar. and then to be able to boast about it later.

I mean, fuck, it's awesome, and I've heard the small chunk of music you've made that you've played here. I'm actually self-taught myself. I just dont get why you'd assume so much shit about anyone that would find themselves participating there, like nothing can be gained there.

[Satan]

i would have saved every dime i had to buy a guitar if he didn't have one or couldn't have bought me one.


and as for him 'approving'

do you think i would ever give a flying fuck if my dad approved of what i was doing or not?

[alteredcourse]

post at same time, so

^^ you dont think that a group of people that learned from someone could cultivate their own styles based on a similar foundation of fundamentals, just from their personalities + uniquenesses + experiences? Like their own shit wouldnt come out anyways ???

[Satan]

it would be a lot harder. it would take a lot longer.


this conversation is an exercise in futility.

[infinitemusic]

Aw come on it's a pretty good discussion

^^ you dont think that a group of people that learned from someone could cultivate their own styles based on a similar foundation of fundamentals, just from their personalities + uniquenesses + experiences? Like their own shit wouldnt come out anyways ???

They COULD, yes, but you can't teach originality. It's in your bones. If they need someone to tell them that it's OK for them to be an individual, especially at that age, they aren't one and they never will be. I don't have anything against learning how to play the guitar the "right" way, but that goes way beyond just learning power chords and most people never even get beyond that because it's too hard and they don't want to take the time, so they might as well just start out doing it their own way instead of the boring way that everyone else already does it.

[alteredcourse]

sway, that is a really great thing. Honestly, I feel what you're saying. I'm not trying to know what your experience is like, or suggest that others do, or that all anyone would have to do is go to a music summer school to get on the train with that feeling.

[alteredcourse]

Originally Posted by Satan

what i'm saying is that if you teach yourself you have a lot more room to grow and develop your own style, because who the fuck wants to be like someone else?

Ok.
What I'm saying is that whether you go to fucking summer camp or not, you always have room to grow,
summer camp does not threaten ones individuality,
learning on your own does not threaten technique,
dedication and passion and the pure desire will compell you to keep on keepin' on, basically.

[Satan]

most people have never had an original thought in their lives

[infinitemusic]

true. sometimes I wonder if even I have...

[alteredcourse]

Sorry, I'm not from around here, so I had to google "original" and can't seem to find my way out of "sin".

[chrome noise tape]

Originally Posted by Satan

most people have never had an original thought in their lives

 

...always the same cliche but the true.

[alteredcourse]

Oh fuck no, definitely, sway. As I said, you cant teach a kid how to feel and what to feel. This is not the debate. At all.

Um, let's take an example, from your post. You taught some kid a metallica riff, out of the blue, for fun, becuase you were both in the same place. That kid went home and did that small rif. Those..three chords, whatever. And just from the satisfaction or whatever it took for that kid to have experienced that, he/she went home and did it a couple times, went "hmm i can do this" and noodled out whatever else was in there for them to play? Meh, Fuck , nobody wants another creed or Anything like that. I gotta wonder what kinda people are instructing this summer camp though. I mean, for easy credits in jr high I took guitar and the teacher let us bring in whatever we wanted. I brought in nirvana, hole, other things. She just wanted to see us enjoy music. I was crap, but I think she was doing whatever possible just to encourage everyone to find enjoyment in music. That I can respect.

[Satan]

i just think it's a stupid waste of money and it's a fucking cop out. just buy yr kid the guitar and let them figure it out from there.

[alteredcourse]

Cop out from what? From the difficulty of learning on your own? Meh, just feel better about yourself for being superhumanly talented etc, dont worry about them.

[Satan]

nothing good ever comes out of being a lazy fuck and having people basically do shit for you


oh yeah not to mention the fact that it's girls-only which is separatist BS
real girls can play as hard as the boys

[alteredcourse]

Meh, no program is the be all and end all to any specific thing. If anything claimed to be such, I would be more skeptical.

I'm going to bed, and I bid you good night.

[notyourfiend]

Girls Rock certainly does not "teach" rock music and to think that it completely ignorant. Girls in the camp form bands and write their own songs. They are encouraged to play whatever style they want to, however they want to. The band couches are just there to direct them.

Once again, what is so wrong with giving girls a week where they can create in a facilitated manner? Once again, many of these girls otherwise would not have access to music lessons, equipment, some of the workshops. If you think that it's wrong to give these girls a chance to create and have fun, well then...

About girls in bands - of course there have always been girls who play music. But how many woman that most young girls know about actually play integral roles in bands? How many women aren't presented as being sex objects. Even in the world of "indie rock," I would argue that 90% of females are presented as objects of female desire. Even in 2009. It's extremely difficult for a not-drop dead-gorgeous woman to actually make it. And dont' even begin to give me shit about dudes needing to be handsome because that's just wrong (and even if it's helpful, men rarely hold that same position in a band)

Safe spaces for women, especially at younger ages, is extremely important. Girls Rock addresses girls at a time of their life that they are the most self-conscious. Of course boys also have it tuff but I will still argue that there is little less torturous than being a girl going through puberty. This is providing girls with a positive way to channel everything. The camp isn't separatist BS. Come on dudes, these are children. Guys also deserve to have their safe spaces. Seriously. There are tons of problems embedded into masculinity - and I have lots of male friends who have really suffered the consequences of not being masculine enough. Feminism is about wanting equality for both sexes.

I personally think it's incredibly messed up that one would be against Girls Rock because the rock doesn't "sound good" or isn't spontaneous enough. Nobody sounds good in the beginning. The week isn't about preparing for the show - the show is something that is done more for the parents, the media, and for fun. Girls Rock is process rather than product based. It's about getting girls out there to have fun, make friends, and learn some basics. In the end, it gives a lot of girls the push to actually feel confident enough to go out there and take the initiative to really jam out of their own.

[terriblecanyons]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

bitch, shut the fuck up and go make me a god damned ham sandwhich. cut the tv on while yr at it.

rept