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Old 01.01.2020, 08:44 AM   #7981
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Old 01.01.2020, 09:49 AM   #7982
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Haha!

The image of three wise men giving baby Jesus an assortment of guns as gifts is perfect.
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Old 01.03.2020, 02:47 AM   #7983
Robert Schunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon
Those instances (the ones pointed out here) are someone voicing their discomfort with far right talking points seeping into this forum and being repeated ad nauseam. I see no actual ill-wishes concerning your personal well-being in them. They are harsh indictments of the type of stuff you're posting here. And as I will lay out in detail below the next quote, there's a whole bunch of legitimate concerns those two as well as others have no doubt tried to communicate to you. It's not like this whole thing started yesterday. Context certainly does matter.


Things are not quite that simple. But a certain rhetoric, certain sources and talking points carry connotations. Just a random example: Putting repeat emphasis on Obama's middle name for instance implies that whoever does that has some issues with that middle name. It instills an image of the "other". And it's been a favorite of rightwing pundits that sought to discredit him.
And more broadly, spreading false information, using the lingo of the current president and so on and so forth displays a large amount of devotion to that machinery.
At this point, so much is known about the person in question, one Donald Trump. There are several instances that put some of the Nazi-comparisons into context. And I'm by no means the first one to point these out, but here are just a handful of incidents, behavioral patterns and pieces of information that should serve as a little refresher:


*Trump has retweeted a quote by Mussolini and didn't distance himself from said fascist dictator when it was pointed out to him.


Trump's response on this point is no more than saying that even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Bad people can say wise things, as a half-truth is often more effective than an outright lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon
*Trump has claimed there were "very fine people" on both sides in the wake of a counterprotester being killed during a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville in 2017. And this year, his reflections on said remark included him praising Robert E. Lee, even going so far as to state the following: "I have spoken to many generals here, right at the White House, and many people thought of the generals, they think maybe he was their favorite general."


Here, you're buying into the Charlottesville Hoax. Here's the CNN report of the famous Trump Tower press conference of 15 August 2017 as reported the following day:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/polit...lay/index.html

Included are the following:

"On Saturday, as violence in Charlottesville played out on national television, Trump blamed "many sides" for the conflict. Though that answer was quickly panned by Democrats and Republicans alike, Trump remained silent on Sunday, leaving it to his aides to try to clean up his vague answer. Trump, after mounting pressure that was palpable inside the White House, spoke Monday and condemned the white supremacists and neo-Nazis at the heart of the violence.On Tuesday, though, Trump defended his 48-hour delay in denouncing white supremacists, arguing that he took his time because he didn't know the facts.
"I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick statement," Trump said, calling his initial comment a "fine statement."
He added: "I don't want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement."
The President subsequently called the driver of the car that drove through a crowd, killing one woman, a "murderer" then once again blamed both sides for the violence.
Trump said there were some "very bad people" on both sides, but that there was [sic] some who came out to protest the removal of Robert E. Lee's statue who were "fine people."
"You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, to them, of a very, very important statue and a renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name," Trump said.

***

In other words, he was distinguishing between peaceful protestors on both sides and those on both sides using violence to get their points across while denying others their say.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon
*Ivana Trump mentioned in her testimony that Donnie had a copy of "My New Order" - a collection of Hitler's speeches in a cabinet by his bed - an anecdotal account you may say, but I'm inclined to believe her; Trump constantly labels mainstream media as "fake news", disavowing pretty much anything that doesn't stroke his ego - which draws eerie parallels to Hitler's strategy of discrediting any media critical of him and calling it "LŁgenpresse" ("lying press"); there are plenty more instances that draw some parallels - all of them, as well as those already mentioned in this bracket are also summed up here in this op-ed.


I've just given you a blatant example of a press lie, which CNN continues to spew even AFTER the artilce I linked proved that they knew the truth.

And concerning Professor Neueborne's op-ed, I find it facile and unconvincing. That's quite difficult for me to say, since he once substitute-taught my Constitutional Law class while my regular professor was sidelined for medical reasons and he's a brilliant and humorous guy, but I jump off his train when he relates Hitler's use of unilateral executive power to the President's use of executive orders. He should know better, in that this country has an independent judiciary and President Trump has NEVER violated a court order. Furthermore, while referring derisively to President Trump's use of executive orders to skirt Congress, he appears to have forgotten President Obama's use of an executive order to impose DACA as the law of the land, which was a clear executive exercise of an Article I, Section 8 LEGISLATIVE power, and thus an unconstitutional breach of separation of powers.
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Old 01.03.2020, 05:03 AM   #7984
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Happy New 2020 Year

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Old 01.03.2020, 05:10 AM   #7985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _tunic_
Happy New 2020 Year

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Yeah, that's precisely what I'm thinking myself just now.

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Old 01.03.2020, 06:40 AM   #7986
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I didn't see there was another thread, let's keep the discussion over there to avoid cross-posting etc ...
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Old 01.03.2020, 08:30 AM   #7987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
Trump's response on this point is no more than saying that even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Bad people can say wise things, as a half-truth is often more effective than an outright lie.


So fuck the sociopolitical context and the connotations of said quote, right? We all live in a vacuum where nothing means anything anyway. Might as well appropriate a saying of a true-blue fascist to suit your needs because meaning, what is meaning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
Here, you're buying into the Charlottesville Hoax. Here's the CNN report of the famous Trump Tower press conference of 15 August 2017 as reported the following day:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/polit...lay/index.html

Included are the following:

"On Saturday, as violence in Charlottesville played out on national television, Trump blamed "many sides" for the conflict. Though that answer was quickly panned by Democrats and Republicans alike, Trump remained silent on Sunday, leaving it to his aides to try to clean up his vague answer. Trump, after mounting pressure that was palpable inside the White House, spoke Monday and condemned the white supremacists and neo-Nazis at the heart of the violence.On Tuesday, though, Trump defended his 48-hour delay in denouncing white supremacists, arguing that he took his time because he didn't know the facts.
"I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick statement," Trump said, calling his initial comment a "fine statement."
He added: "I don't want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement."
The President subsequently called the driver of the car that drove through a crowd, killing one woman, a "murderer" then once again blamed both sides for the violence.
Trump said there were some "very bad people" on both sides, but that there was [sic] some who came out to protest the removal of Robert E. Lee's statue who were "fine people."
"You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, to them, of a very, very important statue and a renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name," Trump said.

***

In other words, he was distinguishing between peaceful protestors on both sides and those on both sides using violence to get their points across while denying others their say.


Accuses someone of buying into press hoax, provides link that in no way invalidates, hell, even doubles down on what had been said before. I am aware of Trump's little damage control act he hastily applied about two days too late, but his track record on condemning rightwing extremists continued to be poor as all can be. And his little dogwhistles as well as his constant verbal diarrhea would continue onward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
And concerning Professor Neueborne's op-ed, I find it facile and unconvincing. That's quite difficult for me to say, since he once substitute-taught my Constitutional Law class while my regular professor was sidelined for medical reasons and he's a brilliant and humorous guy, but I jump off his train when he relates Hitler's use of unilateral executive power to the President's use of executive orders.

In the preamble, Neuborne clearly states the following:
" I hate to put Donald Trump and Adolf Hitler in the same sentence. It trivializes Hitler’s obscene crimes to compare them with Trump’s often pathetic foibles. And it understates our nation’s historic commitment to constitutional democracy to suggest a serious parallel between the twenty first century United States and 1930’s Weimar Germany."

He compiled similarities and parallels in conduct/behavior, but he never stated those actions are exactly one and the same. You don't exactly have to have the full executive power of a dictator to fancy yourself a big guy with lotsa lotsa power. And that, Trump does to a tee.



And as for Trump "never violating a court order", maybe you should think about the sheer amount of court orders his admin made necessary. Let alone the many counts of him violating the constitution.


Anyway, Trump might've just set in motion a new devastating war with his stupid actions. This is really fucking bad. And it will take center stage in this thread now.
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Old 01.03.2020, 12:20 PM   #7988
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Old 01.04.2020, 03:43 AM   #7989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon
So fuck the sociopolitical context and the connotations of said quote, right? We all live in a vacuum where nothing means anything anyway. Might as well appropriate a saying of a true-blue fascist to suit your needs because meaning, what is meaning?


Accuses someone of buying into press hoax, provides link that in no way invalidates, hell, even doubles down on what had been said before.


Here's the complete transcript of the Trump Tower press conference of 15 August 2017:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...nscript-241662

Here is a portion relevant to my point:

"If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. Iím sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call Ďem. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest, because you know, I don't know if you know, but they had a permit. The other group didn't have a permit. So I only tell you this: there are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country."

Once again, he was referring, not to the Nazis and white nationalists, but to the peaceful protesters when he said there were "very fine people" on both sides. And there most certainly was violence perpetrated on both sides, as the videos clearly show the Antifa people attacking the pro-statue people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon
I am aware of Trump's little damage control act he hastily applied about two days too late, but his track record on condemning rightwing extremists continued to be poor as all can be. And his little dogwhistles as well as his constant verbal diarrhea would continue onward.


Those are subjective judgements on your part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon
In the preamble, Neuborne clearly states the following:
" I hate to put Donald Trump and Adolf Hitler in the same sentence. It trivializes Hitlerís obscene crimes to compare them with Trumpís often pathetic foibles. And it understates our nationís historic commitment to constitutional democracy to suggest a serious parallel between the twenty first century United States and 1930ís Weimar Germany."


Then maybe he shouldn't have attempted the piece in the first place. Trump is either subverting the Constitution or he isn't, and a lawyer like Professor Neuborne should know the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon
He compiled similarities and parallels in conduct/behavior, but he never stated those actions are exactly one and the same. You don't exactly have to have the full executive power of a dictator to fancy yourself a big guy with lotsa lotsa power. And that, Trump does to a tee.


And as for Trump "never violating a court order", maybe you should think about the sheer amount of court orders his admin made necessary. Let alone the many counts of him violating the constitution.


And, from my memory, most of those court orders were quashed on appeal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon
Anyway, Trump might've just set in motion a new devastating war with his stupid actions. This is really fucking bad. And it will take center stage in this thread now.

That's a new thread now. See you there!
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Old 01.04.2020, 01:30 PM   #7990
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Donald Trump claims that his unexpected strike on Iran that killed top military official Qasem Soleimani came on the heels of an imminent threat against the United States – but less than 24 hours after the president officially announced the assassination, his entire rationale for the military action has collapsed.

As NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel said on Saturday, there is “no direct evidence” that there was a specific threat against the United States that would justify the strike.

“There has been no direct evidence presented by the administration and nothing that we’ve seen,” Engel said on MSNBC’s AM Joy. “When you listen to officials at the U.S. State Department, and they described yesterday in a call to reporters what this imminent attack was all about, it was quite vague in their explanation. ”

The NBC News correspondent said the administration is presenting “a very, very broad picture that doesn’t necessarily explain the kind of pinpoint specific attack that would necessarily justify this kind of imminent threat logic.”



— PoliticusUSA (@politicususa) January 4, 2020

Engel reported:

There has been no direct evidence presented by the administration and nothing that we’ve seen. But frankly speaking, the — that is what Qasem Soleimani did. We don’t know if he was organizing what kind of attack, we don’t know if he was organizing something imminent in the future, where, when or how but the fact that Qasem Soleimani would have been meeting with Shiite militia leaders – and he was meeting with Shiite militia leaders – because they were in the same convoy that was killed for him, that’s not that unusual and the things that they would meet to do would be to carry out attacks against the U.S. That is something they’ve done in the past. That is something that is in their strategic interest. They generally both want the United States out of this country. That is what they have been set up to do. But, no, we don’t have any specific information but you can draw a logical conclusion that that’s the kind of thing they would be talking about. And frankly when you listen to officials at the U.S. State Department, and they described yesterday in a call to reporters what this imminent attack was all about, it was quite vague in their explanation. They said that it was going to be attack on U.S. personnel or U.S. bases in Iraq or Syria or the region or Lebanon, a very, very broad picture that doesn’t necessarily explain the kind of pinpoint specific attack that would necessarily justify this kind of imminent threat logic.

This is about Trump boosting his reelection bid – full stop
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Old 01.05.2020, 01:16 AM   #7991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilduclo
Donald Trump claims that his unexpected strike on Iran that killed top military official Qasem Soleimani came on the heels of an imminent threat against the United States – but less than 24 hours after the president officially announced the assassination, his entire rationale for the military action has collapsed.

As NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel said on Saturday, there is “no direct evidence” that there was a specific threat against the United States that would justify the strike.

“There has been no direct evidence presented by the administration and nothing that we’ve seen,” Engel said on MSNBC’s AM Joy. “When you listen to officials at the U.S. State Department, and they described yesterday in a call to reporters what this imminent attack was all about, it was quite vague in their explanation. ”

The NBC News correspondent said the administration is presenting “a very, very broad picture that doesn’t necessarily explain the kind of pinpoint specific attack that would necessarily justify this kind of imminent threat logic.”



— PoliticusUSA (@politicususa) January 4, 2020

Engel reported:

There has been no direct evidence presented by the administration and nothing that we’ve seen. But frankly speaking, the — that is what Qasem Soleimani did. We don’t know if he was organizing what kind of attack, we don’t know if he was organizing something imminent in the future, where, when or how but the fact that Qasem Soleimani would have been meeting with Shiite militia leaders – and he was meeting with Shiite militia leaders – because they were in the same convoy that was killed for him, that’s not that unusual and the things that they would meet to do would be to carry out attacks against the U.S. That is something they’ve done in the past. That is something that is in their strategic interest. They generally both want the United States out of this country. That is what they have been set up to do. But, no, we don’t have any specific information but you can draw a logical conclusion that that’s the kind of thing they would be talking about. And frankly when you listen to officials at the U.S. State Department, and they described yesterday in a call to reporters what this imminent attack was all about, it was quite vague in their explanation. They said that it was going to be attack on U.S. personnel or U.S. bases in Iraq or Syria or the region or Lebanon, a very, very broad picture that doesn’t necessarily explain the kind of pinpoint specific attack that would necessarily justify this kind of imminent threat logic.

This is about Trump boosting his reelection bid – full stop

Had you attempted to post this on the thread specifically geared towards this issue )entitled: The Death of General Qassem Soleimani, you might have noticed the following paragraph in my original post to that thread:

"The wisdom of the attack is another matter, as, should the intelligence that the President was given concerning the imminence of the threat prove as faulty as that given to President Johnson concerning the Gulf of Tonkin and the Dominican Republic, the President might just find himself committed to yet another war founded upon false pretenses of the type which ultimately destroyed Johnson's presidency."

***

I can only hope that what we both fear in this instance may not be the case. I do tend to trust President Trump over the corporate media, however, so let's just see what turns out to be true.
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Old 01.06.2020, 01:20 PM   #7992
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Arundhati Roy:

“..a shadow world is creeping up on us in broad daylight. It is becoming more and more difficult to communicate the scale of the crisis even to ourselves. An accurate description runs the risk if sounding like hyperbole. And so, for the sake of credibility and good manners, we groom the creature that has sunk its teeth into us; we comb out its hair and wipe its dripping jaw to make it more personable in polite company.”
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Old 01.06.2020, 01:40 PM   #7993
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https://www.salon.com/2020/01/02/edd...lent-nihilism/
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Old 01.06.2020, 05:23 PM   #7994
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pull out...don't pull out.....make up yer fucking republan minds. what little ya have....

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/unite...b0843d3616faac
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Old 01.06.2020, 05:50 PM   #7995
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Noel Casler, a celebrity and comedian who used to work on the Apprentice:

"The guy is unmanageable...He's not a functioning human being. He barely works....Imagine the dysfunction and the insanity these people are witnessing at the White House. The GOP leaders that, as you said, are enabling him. He doesn't even leave the residency anymore. You know, when he took office, he wouldn't come down to the Oval Office until noon. And they started calling it executive time. Right. And I'm like, I know what that's about. He's a 73 year old drug addict. It takes him three hours to get going in the morning....and now he has degenerated to the point where he doesn't leave the residence. He's taking most of those meetings when he's at the White House in his private quarters."

And now...Ivanka. The plastic, fake-throaty voice, daughter wife.

"If you are scared of Trump, you should be terrified of Ivanka. I think she's the brains behind the operation. I've seen her manipulate him. It's all an act. Down to that phony voice she uses. That's a put on. That's how he likes her to sound. Her real voice is a lot lower and she curses like a sailor...she's engineering herself to take over. Ivanka wants to rule us all someday and I'm not being...it's not just hyperbole....she wants her face on money....so people should be very worried about her."
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Old 01.08.2020, 05:20 AM   #7996
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Robert Schunk kicks all y'all's assesRobert Schunk kicks all y'all's assesRobert Schunk kicks all y'all's assesRobert Schunk kicks all y'all's assesRobert Schunk kicks all y'all's assesRobert Schunk kicks all y'all's assesRobert Schunk kicks all y'all's assesRobert Schunk kicks all y'all's assesRobert Schunk kicks all y'all's assesRobert Schunk kicks all y'all's assesRobert Schunk kicks all y'all's asses
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilduclo
Noel Casler, a celebrity and comedian who used to work on the Apprentice:

"The guy is unmanageable...He's not a functioning human being. He barely works....Imagine the dysfunction and the insanity these people are witnessing at the White House. The GOP leaders that, as you said, are enabling him. He doesn't even leave the residency anymore. You know, when he took office, he wouldn't come down to the Oval Office until noon. And they started calling it executive time. Right. And I'm like, I know what that's about. He's a 73 year old drug addict. It takes him three hours to get going in the morning....and now he has degenerated to the point where he doesn't leave the residence. He's taking most of those meetings when he's at the White House in his private quarters."

And now...Ivanka. The plastic, fake-throaty voice, daughter wife.

"If you are scared of Trump, you should be terrified of Ivanka. I think she's the brains behind the operation. I've seen her manipulate him. It's all an act. Down to that phony voice she uses. That's a put on. That's how he likes her to sound. Her real voice is a lot lower and she curses like a sailor...she's engineering herself to take over. Ivanka wants to rule us all someday and I'm not being...it's not just hyperbole....she wants her face on money....so people should be very worried about her."

AWWW, puhEEEEZE!!!
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Old 01.08.2020, 10:55 AM   #7997
Bytor Peltor
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Today is like Trumps Election Day all over again......for the stock market tells us so!
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אש זרה


A Friend Of The Devil Is A Friend Of Mine
If I Get Home Before Daylight
I Just Might Get Some Sleep Tonight - GD

 
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Old 01.08.2020, 11:27 AM   #7998
!@#$%!
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the fear and greed index
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Old 01.10.2020, 11:42 AM   #7999
!@#$%!
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paul krugman’s newsletter from this morning, which i just posted on the iran thread cuz it applies here too.



When liars go to war

I wrote my first column for The New York Times 20 years ago. I was hired to focus on business and economics — I remember Howell Raines, the editorial page editor at the time, saying “We have five columnists writing about the Middle East, which is too many, and nobody writing about the economy.” And I fully expected to spend my time mainly on the tech bubble, China’s entry into the world economy, and so on.

But events intervened, in ways that seem highly relevant to our current situation.

First, I found myself horrified by the 2000 election campaign and its immediate aftermath — both by the campaign’s content and by most of the media coverage. For it was obvious to me that George W. Bush was being deeply dishonest about his policy proposals on things like tax cuts and Social Security privatization — dishonest in a way we’d never seen in previous elections.

Yet the conventions of “balanced” coverage prevented the news media from making Bush’s dishonesty clear. As I wrote in November 2000, “If a presidential candidate were to declare that the earth is flat, you would be sure to see a news analysis under the headline ‘Shape of the Planet: Both Sides Have a Point.’”

Then came Sept. 11, and the partisan exploitation of the atrocity. Within days, Republicans tried to use the terrorist attack as an excuse to cut taxes on corporations and the wealthy. But nobody wanted to hear about that; the media narrative was of a nation unified in its determination to stand tall, and the corrupt reality was largely covered over.

Which brings us to this current moment. The media and the public are far less gullible now than they were then, but even now there’s a tendency to take administration claims at face value, or at least semi-seriously.

Don’t do this. Lies don’t stop at the water’s edge. Administrations that are dishonest about domestic policy tend to be dishonest about foreign policy too. And while the Bush administration lied a lot, Trump and company lie about everything
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Old 01.10.2020, 05:08 PM   #8000
ilduclo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
the fear and greed index

yup, I sold EVERYTHING off. Gonna settle for 162%

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