[atsonicpark]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

yeah, but studying the craft or technical skill has its place, i mean what would necrophagist be like if that guy and hadn't studied the guitar like an absolute bastard? Likewise Sun Ra studied music theory and technique extensively for years before he started performing his own stuff.

anyway, i don't agree with not being able to learn how to be an artist (or a better artist), there have been moments where somebody has said something and a light goes on in my head (for want of a better term), although these moments tend to be random and unpredictable, and likewise with technical practice, if you study the craft you will be better equipped to execute whatever ideas you have, whether you choose to use that skill or not is up to the individual, and generally speaking you will learn certain things more quickly in some environments than others (e.g. school vs home), although that works both ways.
there are things that can only be achieved through dogged technical practice, and it can lead to some pretty weird places, eg. after i had been studying drawing for sometime i would have sessions when i could see the air move, or at least that was what it looked like, my visual awareness seemed to reach a heightened level on good days, and this wouldn't have happened with out practicing drawing a lot, because practicing drawing is really learning how to look at things.
moments like those that are achieved through the craft/technical side can really feed into the imaginative side and allow your ideas to develop in ways you would never imagine without learning some technique concurrently.

sorry, i'm rambling, i should have gone to bed a couple of hours ago already.

I just think that most of the art I find interesting is from people who are self-taught. If you go far enough back, all the original artists weren't taught, either, of course.. I like the idea of people trying to do new things. Obviously, having some respect for old traditions is fine, but I think you're either an artist or you're not. I don't think that's something that can be "taught", conventionally, and while going to school to further what you're interested in is fine, I think the true greats are usually just born that way, with a natural inclination and with common sense. I think I just have naturally tried to avoid "learning" anything, because.. well.. I don't want to. But that's me. Whatever works for people, again..

Still, you raise some interesting points, so feel free to keep rambling.

[Alex's Trip]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

I just think that most of the art I find interesting is from people who are self-taught. If you go far enough back, all the original artists weren't taught, either, of course.. I like the idea of people trying to do new things. Obviously, having some respect for old traditions is fine, but I think you're either an artist or you're not. I don't think that's something that can be "taught", conventionally, and while going to school to further what you're interested in is fine, I think the true greats are usually just born that way, with a natural inclination and with common sense. I think I just have naturally tried to avoid "learning" anything, because.. well.. I don't want to. But that's me. Whatever works for people, again..

Still, you raise some interesting points, so feel free to keep rambling.

What constitutes this?

I fancy myself an artist, but I have an immensely difficult time expressing myself in many/any medium. Does that mean I'm not an artist?

[atsonicpark]

Er, I'm just saying, for people creating art, as I said in the other post, you're either an artist (or perhaps an aspiring artist) or a craftsman. You're either doing something new and interesting or you're replicating something that's already been done. I do think there are plenty of things that are art-related that can't be taught, and those are the most important things.

Sorry, I'm really sleepy and probably not making myself clear.

But I will say, the best thing about art is the furthering of your techniques. Feeling like you're stumbling on something new.. really growing and learning and evolving.. and I think it's cool, whatever a person wants to do to further that technique.. whether it's school or whatever.. whatever a person needs to do to feel like they're making good work, even if its' by emulating other artists, I mean.. whatever makes you happy, right?

I think most artists, and people associated with the "Art world", take this shit all so seriously. I know a guy who sold a painting for $100 in New York and he thinks he's God. Shrug.

[atsonicpark]

I've always wanted to go to film school just so I could drop out. I'd do it for the sake of performance art. You know, register for school, spend tons of money, maybe even rent some equipment, and then just fucking quit. All for the sake of art. No reason besides art. I mean, anyone here ever been to a film school? I remember my friend (who dropped out) telling me about a kid he beat the crap out of... this kid brought in footage of his penis covered in a tea cozy while a clown covered in pancake-batter pointed (while laughing maniacally) at a photo of a stewardess with Down's Syndome and told the class it represented the duality of man's fear of death vs his fear of truly...I mean TRULY being....alive?

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

I just think that most of the art I find interesting is from people who are self-taught. If you go far enough back, all the original artists weren't taught, either, of course.. I like the idea of people trying to do new things. Obviously, having some respect for old traditions is fine, but I think you're either an artist or you're not. I don't think that's something that can be "taught", conventionally, and while going to school to further what you're interested in is fine, I think the true greats are usually just born that way, with a natural inclination and with common sense. I think I just have naturally tried to avoid "learning" anything, because.. well.. I don't want to. But that's me. Whatever works for people, again..

Still, you raise some interesting points, so feel free to keep rambling.

yeah, but just because someone is self taught or born with (or without) massive talent it doesn't mean they don't have anything to learn from others. i think you can learn just as much from doing what doesn't come naturally, or feels uncomfortable to do, as you can from what you would do if left to your own devices, sometimes more so. it's not good to operate solely in a comfort zone.

[atsonicpark]

Perhaps. I dunno. I just love me some forward-thinking self-taught auteurs. So sexy.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Er, I'm just saying, for people creating art, as I said in the other post, you're either an artist (or perhaps an aspiring artist) or a craftsman. You're either doing something new and interesting or you're replicating something that's already been done.

Conceptually speaking, your own art (and really anyone's) is replicating something that's already been done.

[atsonicpark]

Not on purpose. I try to completely destroy my influences. And I've done a few things that I can almost gurantee no one's ever done before, or at least no one that anyone (including myself) will ever know about. As far as music goes, I invented "egrind"/"cybergrind" (along with SMES and Libido Airbag) with one of my first bands. I think I've done some pretty new things.. I try to at least... I mean, I'm pretty well-versed when it comes to the kind of stuff I'm into and I consciously try to avoid imitating what's been done before. I don't like homages and shit. But just by existing at all, you're probably going to do some things that have already been done. Still, find me a 40 minute "movie" about friendship completely done in MSPaint and with a webcam with a soundtrack made mostly from pitchshifted fart sounds (literally) and I'll eat my words. Haha.

[pbradley]

Then again, you do have OCD.

[atsonicpark]

Let me go beyond that and say that obviously you're going to have something in common with someone else in the field you're dabbling in, but the best artists -- to me -- aren't faceless, they have their trademarks. Watch a Lynch or a Godard or a Herzog film; you can tell within 5 minutes of any of those what film you're watching. Look at a Francis Bacon painting or something... obviously, there's some similarities here and there, but these artists have... furthered certain techniques to establish individuality. Or something.

[atsonicpark]

OCD rules. It really annoyed one girl I dated though. Oh well.

[terminal pharmacy]

academia and arts criticism can be very self serving. while i see there is a place for it i donot want to be a part of it. being that i work in an area that can be pretenious as all fuck and hold quite alot of snobbery, particularly when you are new around the scene, you find you clan within that. theatre criticism at least in australia is very very parasitic but also a necessary evil. i find theatre academia to be quite deplorable a good percentage of the time. particularly because very few academics are involved in the professional theatre community at least in my state and some of the other states where i have worked. academia can suck the soul right out of art because it really takes away the immediate visceral and kinetic responses that people may have when engaging in art by far overthinking and a belief that them and them alone are the only people who truly understand an artists work.

[atsonicpark]

"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky / Like a patient etherised upon a table"

[atsonicpark]

Haha, I was just on an imdb message board and someone (not me) wrote this:

"As for dropping out, I found that trying to "teach" someone film is as pointless as trying to teach someone to be a creative writer... You either have it in you or you don't.

Some of the best directors in cinema history never stepped foor inside a film school...and some of the worst teach there now. "

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0446685/...t/39887641?p=3


rElevant, yes.. no?

[pbradley]

Sure, if we all agree that the best directors are the same as whoever this guy on imdb think they are, but I doubt it.

[Kloriel]

Someone once told me that in creative lines of work you'll have "teachers" in academia and then "anti-teachers" outside. If you're too comfortable within the ivory tower then you'll make a great teacher. If you're too comfortable outside then you'll make a great anti-teacher. The trick according to this person is to collide the teachers with the anti-teachers and use the left over gore & tendons on their spinal columns as wings to soar like an eagle to the sound of your last

[floatingslowly]

I've heard that a gram of anti-teachers outweighs the sun.

[Kloriel]

I wouldn't know about things like that. Cool thread though.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Originally Posted by pbradley

^ probably why I usually don't bother to read your posts

You still trying to get me back for the other day or something?

[pbradley]

I don't know, dude, like, whatever your reality makes it out to be, you know.