[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by Lurker

Seriously, that article is just like the Daily Mail but on the other end of the bigotry scale.

entirely not bigoted?

Is that a compliment to the article?

Is this too postmodern for me to understand?......


INGERLAND

[ni'k]

yeah i can see you've already invoked the "but if you would actually talk to the working class they'll tell you" defense... i don't see how she was presuming to speak on their behalf. anyway, what the hell is enjoying your national team without buying into the jingoism? if not mentioning this is an insult to the working class then i guess i must be insulting them, because i do not see this happening, or it being anything other than the supposedly correct way to appreciate a stupid ritual that i think is bullshit. so whatever.

also - classless? but you just said it was made up of millionaires from nice comfortable backrounds. how can it be classless? thats like the opposite conception of what class is.

and i disagree completely with the "its in our instincts thing". this is just the pyschological ideology of competitive capitalism. its an inverted view of things. i disagree that people behave that way, that is a description of their behaviour but one that refuses to see the behaviour as a consequence of their material conditions and instead tries to place it inside them as if such competitiveness was encoded into their very body. i do not agree that because there are sports there must be something inside us that needs to release suppressed instincts cathartically (is that even possible?).

i think it was you that i made this arguement too in another thread?

[Lurker]

I've edited

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by ni'k

yeah i can see you've already invoked the "but if you would actually talk to the working class they'll tell you" defense... i don't see how she was presuming to speak on their behalf. anyway, what the hell is enjoying your national team without buying into the jingoism? if not mentioning this is an insult to the working class then i guess i must be insulting them, because i do not see this happening, or it being anything other than the supposedly correct way to appreciate a stupid ritual that i think is bullshit. so whatever.

also - classless? but you just said it was made up of millionaires from nice comfortable backrounds. how can it be classless? thats like the opposite conception of what class is.

and i disagree completely with the "its in our instincts thing". this is just the pyschological ideology of competitive capitalism. its an inverted view of things. i disagree that people behave that way, that is a description of their behaviour but one that refuses to see the behaviour as a consequence of their material conditions and instead tries to place it inside them as if such competitiveness was encoded into their very body. i do not agree that because there are sports there must be something inside us that needs to release suppressed instincts cathartically (is that even possible?).

i think it was you that i made this arguement too in another thread?

thats in response to me, right?

[ni'k]

the last 2 bits are.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by ni'k

also - classless? but you just said it was made up of millionaires from nice comfortable backrounds. how can it be classless? thats like the opposite conception of what class is.

and i disagree completely with the "its in our instincts thing". this is just the pyschological ideology of competitive capitalism. its an inverted view of things. i disagree that people behave that way, that is a description of their behaviour but one that refuses to see the behaviour as a consequence of their material conditions and instead tries to place it inside them as if such competitiveness was encoded into their very body. i do not agree that because there are sports there must be something inside us that needs to release suppressed instincts cathartically (is that even possible?).

i think it was you that i made this arguement too in another thread?

The first part,
I said that theyre millionnaires (which they are), and that half of them come from nice, comfortable backgrounds (which they do)
I was assuming the implication that the other half are from less fortunate positions than that was well known, at least i was assuming people commenting here knew that to be so

Second point

Our nature is the reason there is racism, and base mistrust of "the other", and gang mentalities, and conservatives, and the rest.
sports are a manifestation of that, and no matter what anyone says, they are suject to that tribal tendency

[SonicBebs]

Originally Posted by ni'k

also - classless? but you just said it was made up of millionaires from nice comfortable backrounds. how can it be classless? thats like the opposite conception of what class is.

?

it is classless because people from every 'class' enjoy playing and watchiing it.
i play football and i'm no millionaire.
Rio Ferdinand is not from a comfortable background
it's the only sport (i can think of) that is classless

except maybe running

and fox hunting

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

No, I'll tell you what's an insult to the working class, so-called Marxists like Penny Red writing on behalf of a class she appears to have no real understanding of or empathy with. Had she decided to step outside of her 'dark room' and actually met a few of her beloved working class people, she'd realise that for every picture in the media of some moron brandishing a George flag, there are thousands of others who can enjoy supporting their national team without having to buy into the jingoism. Penny Red should stop reading the Sun and actually meet some of the people she's writing about.

Yeah, but you're calling a marxist someone whose credentials as such are totally up for debate. That's as extreme and prejudiced as nick's overall views on football.

[Keeping It Simple]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

No, I'll tell you what's an insult to the working class, so-called Marxists like Penny Red writing on behalf of a class she appears to have no real understanding of or empathy with. Had she decided to step outside of her 'dark room' and actually met a few of her beloved working class people, she'd realise that for every picture in the media of some moron brandishing a George flag, there are thousands of others who can enjoy supporting their national team without having to buy into the jingoism. Penny Red should stop reading the Sun and actually meet some of the people she's writing about.

So you're saying all the fans of all the nations in the World Cup are jingoistic morons for brandishing their nations flag to show their support? What a PC posturing cunt.

[ni'k]

i didnt know football fans suffered such persecution....

i will try my best to work hard on my prejudice so we can live in harmony in our inclusive and tolerant democracy.

i deeply apologise to football fans for the emotional distress caused by my comments. i am now aware of the insensitivity and hurt caused by my comments about football fans, considering the hardship this proud people have endured it is inexcusable. and i would like to make public my apology. i know that rule 1 of life today is that everyone has the right to enjoyment, and the pursuit of this unattainable goal is what keeps us all depressed and in our place, and to dare threaten anyone elses enjoyment of meaninglessness by saying things that are not positive and may actually cause them to think somehow makes me a NAZI, nay, worse than a nazi, a sub human crab nazi.

i am today, a very sad, and very sorry panda.

[pbradley]

In USA, the World Series of baseball is only North America.

Yah ain't got shit on our nationalism.

[Genteel Death]

I'm just glad supermarkets were mostly empty when I went to do some shopping today because of it. I don't care either way about football, that's not to say others shouldn't enjoy it for as long as they're not being pricks about it.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

entirely not bigoted?

Is that a compliment to the article?

Is this too postmodern for me to understand?......


INGERLAND

You saw my edit right? I meant it was just as bigotted.