[Severian]

So I just downloaded Raekwon's Picasso 2 mixtape, AraabMUZIK's For Professional Use Only 2, Cam'ron's 1st of the Month & I'm not even spending much time with them because I'm SO FUCKING EXCITED ABOUT THE UNDERACHIEVERS' DEBUT ALBUM ON FLYLO's BRAINFEEDER LABEL!!!

"the Cellar Door: ..." Is out on August 12 and the fucking lead singles are incredible. This is huge news!!

And Kanye confirmed to GQ that a new album will be out in September, with a new single coming in as little as a few weeks!!

This made me go digging for KanYe treasure and I'm going kinda nuts with “The Graduat” aka the Graduation Mixtape, which is 28 tracks of in-fuckingcredibleness!!!! I can't believe I just learned this thing existed yesterday. Lol.

[foreverasskiss]

Originally Posted by louder

weird.. i remember you used to like him.

mildly. some songs here and there.

[louder]

new PARTYNEXTDOOR is good

his first one is definitely better though

[foreverasskiss]

Originally Posted by Severian

And Kanye confirmed to GQ that a new album will be out in September, with a new single coming in as little as a few weeks!!

it may suck!! but..... i want Kanye to kill mainstream hip hop with a double swing.

[Severian]

Hey, sorry bros, but I wrote this kind of insulting post about this thread and accidentally posted it in a different thread, on account of my dim wit.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I'm copping to it and re-posting it here rather than pretending it never existed.

Just know that y'all (louder, NR particularly, fasskiss when I understand what a/ he's saying and don't feel like it's a padded insult) are my family. At least... You're as close to family as complete strangers who occasionally discuss one subject in complete anonymity can be. Know that, and don't think I'm taking the piss outta any of you, or any specific person at all for that matter.

Ahem- ok, enough of this preamble bullshit; here's the straight dope:

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

so what bullshit boring music did you listen to this year? this thread......man, sucks ass and is depressing.

I love my café brothers and sisters, but I have to say I'm starting to agree. It's not that anyone is irritating me or anything, but for some reason we, like, NEVER end up talking about any of the NEW hip hop artists or releases unless that particular artist (Ye, Wayne, Wu, Kendrick, the "west coast" as a whole, or Ghostface, with specks of Talib or Mos or Lupe here and there, and the obligatory BIG/PAC references) is already part of the discussion.

Case in point:
I mentioned not one, not two, but THREE brand new mixtape releases of high repute (Raekwon's Picasso 2, AraabMUZIK's For Professional Use Only 2, and the Underachievers' official DEBUT ALBUM, while also dropping HUGE news about the new Kanye album and forthcoming single, due out in a matter of weeks and....

... Well...

Nobody had shit to say about any of it.

I still haven't heard what ANYONE thought of Deltron 3030's second album for fuck's sake! And Doley Bernays and Boldey James, artists of two of the best albums of 2013, have have gone utterly unnoticed despite my best efforts to get folks interested.

Now. There are some big releases dropping. Common, Underachievers (!!!) and Kendrick... It's been a HUGE year for mixtapes, and AraabMUZIK just released a killer comp. Let's talk about that shit!!

Oh yeah, and Dan the Automater just dropped a new album as "Got A Girl" with some female vocalist. Anyone know if it's any good?

Let's restore this thread to its former glory!

[Severian]

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

that Lou Reed review is just perfect and dead-on. if i can maintain goosbumps for almost half an album then its classic in my book. i think "Hold my Liquor" is one of the center pieces of the album. the way it falls apart in certain moments, the guitar squalls and that solo. the last three songs can kinda fuck off, but still, the first 7 songs are blissfull.

Yeezus kills MBDTF and im not even a Kanye freak.

Yeezus does no such thing. It's a straighter, more immediate death stroke of an album: a quick slip of a knife across one's jugular, while MBDTF is definitely a more of a death by poisoning, forcing you to lie in wait of your own impending end, reflecting on your life as it flashes before your eyes.

The two are hard to compare, like Graduation and 808's, because they simply use different means to achieve different ends. But if I had to compare them, I would be forced to takes to account the simple math of the situation:

MBDTF has 13 (14 if you count “See Me Now”) perfect songs.
Yeezus has 10 perfect songs.

Assuming only that Yeezy's absolute best work is all equally good; that all perfect songs are 5-stars (it's easier than actually coming up with a z-score for 24 tracks from 2 vastly different records) then MBDTF is clearly the “better” record, from the perspective of a total Kanye freak.

However: I agree 100% about “Hold my Liquor.” It's the album's centerpiece... The most dramatic and powerful song. Most probably believe "Blood on the Leaves" holds that title, but I don't. It's a great song, but "Hold my Liquor" sounds like a direct message to the world... The "Bitch I'm back out my coma" lines make my heart race, and the subject matter of the song is so personal and so unguarded... You don't hear brutal honesty like that in hip hop very often, and it's a departure from Ye's tendency to favor cleverness and wit over raw emotion. I really do love every track on Yeezus, especially "bound 2," which is a more traditionally "Yeezy" track, one that might fit fairly comfortably on one of his first three albums if not for the abrupt tempo changes and the prog rock chorus. It's disliked by so many of his fans, but it's my second favorite song on the album, easily.

[Severian]

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, though... I feel like it's a more poppy album really, even though it's the very essence of maximalism & experimentation. But for all of it's bells and whistles and oddities, it's a more "normal" hip-hop album than Yeezus. It's full of big guest spots, and catchy choruses. It plays like the ideal hip-hop megahit, only without all the sketches and extended breaks in the action that most artists fluff their albums up with.

Yeezus is a deliberate, raging, iconoclastic challenge to both the listener and the media. It's as inaccessible and non-radio friendly as most post-punk albums... And to be honest, I think it's so far ahead of its time that it foreshadows what "post-hip-hop" will sound like whenever it becomes a thing.

And as much as I favor experimentation to normality, I can't help but prefer MBDTF, which is like an entire album's worth of "Hold My Liquor"-quality songs.

Every time I hear it is like the first time all over again, and each song pulls a different emotion out of me... Power is simply empowering, perfect for driving to work, where you waste your life as a corporate accountant, hated by most of your subordinates and superiors. All of the Lights is an epic ballad of a poverty stricken man, chillingly realistic and heavy handed as hell. Runaway is simply one of my all time favorite songs, irrespective of genre. Top ten, easy. It's also probably the most artistic and abstract hip-hop single to place on the billboard hot 100. If you're a dude and you can't relate to that song , you simply haven't had enough sexual relationships to understand the contradicting impulses that arise when monogamy is attempted. It's beautiful, and it has one of the nastiest little rolling grooves I've ever heard. You can feel it in your freaking veins when that bass kicks in.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

it may suck!! but..... i want Kanye to kill mainstream hip hop with a double swing.

Don't worry, he already has. History will prove this to be true as long as he doesn't let the smear campaign (instituted by the media and society itself as a way to prevent black men from gaining too much influence) get to him. He needs to be like John Lennon, and simply not give a fuck or one day he will slip and fall right into the hands of the haters. I am totally on his side, but I can imagine how difficult it must be, especially with a new child and a wife who's relationship with the media has been one of the hallmarks of post-millennial pop culture's fucking awful taste in celebrities, and our unhealthy dependency on public reality show "epic fails."

I am not worried about the next album. His guest verses and production cameos following Yeezus have all been absolutely brilliant. He's behind the best tracks on two of the year's best hiphop albums, Future's Honest and jolly ol' Ricky Ro$$'s Mastermind. He seems to be in a less volatile state right now, and I think the next record will be a victory lap. It probably won't receive quite the same level of critical praise that Yeezus and MBDTF did, if only because critics rarely allow an artist to have more than 3 five-star records in a row. But all I need is Kanye West... More Kanye West. That's it. I'll be satisfied and I'm sure I will love it, just like I love every Flaming Lips and Spiritualized album.

Yeezy has gone from "meh, he's ok.. 808's & MBDTF are alright, but the rest is meh" to being quite possibly my favorite pop artist in just 2 years. I feel like he is about one step removed from my untouchable "pantheon" of musicians, home to Sonic Youth, Unwound, the VU, Aphex Twin, the aforementioned Lips and all Jason Pierce/Spaceman projects.

In fact I am pretty sure I prefer him to at least two of those artists already. Wow. I can't believe how massive his impact has been on my personal life and my taste in music. Pretty unbelievable.

But enough about me..

[Severian]

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

Liquid Swords is most played by me and i dig the grooves more, but lyrically Only Build breaks thru to something new each time i hear it.


ha, BIBLE was great the first time but got old quick and doesn't fit.

Hmm... Liquid Swords vs. OB4CL huh?
Well, I think Swords clearly has 3 or 4 songs that are so good that they pretty much own all Wu solo-project songs completely.

OB4CL doesn't have any songs that can compete with Liquid's best tracks, except for-- oddly-- "Guillotine (Swordz)"

HOWEVER- Cuban Linx is a better album. Meaning, I guess, that it is more well rounded and fully-realized. The songs may be mostly 7's or 8's on a 1-10 scale, while Liquid Swords contains a handful of 10s, but Cuban Linx doesn't exhaust itself in the first half. It paces itself and stays consistently tight throuought, and it's overall average comes out to a slightly higher score than Loquid Swords.

I prefer it, anyway. I rank it just above LS in the pantheon of Wu-Tabg solo efforts, and I know GZA was The Clan's first "secret weapon" emcee, but I have been of the opinion that Raekwon and Ghostface are and always have been on a par with GZA at the very least. In many way, I think they're both superior to GZA. I'm glad that more and more people have been getting behind this idea in recent years.

Ironman is underrated, and too often forgotten in conversations of Wu-Tang's golden era of solo projects. It took me a while to warm to GFK, and I've said before that for a long time I felt he was out of place in the clan, and that his style didn't mesh well with the other member in the group, but Tony's worked his ass off, and his solo albums alone are proof enough of his skill. I now consider him to be as integral to the Clan's sound as anyone else in the group.

But that's just me. If I could, I would address these questions for a living, and do my best to apply quantitative & qualitative data coding techniques to give the closest possible approximation to an objective and empirical measure by which musicians and artists could be ranked. It would be a load of bullshit, of course, but damned if it wouldn't be fun as hell.

[foreverasskiss]

you must spread lots of rep before giving it to Severian again.

[foreverasskiss]

Originally Posted by Severian

Yeezy has gone from "meh, he's ok.. 808's & MBDTF are alright, but the rest is meh" to being quite possibly my favorite pop artist in just 2 years. I feel like he is about one step removed from my untouchable "pantheon" of musicians, home to Sonic Youth, Unwound, the VU, Aphex Twin, the aforementioned Lips and all Jason Pierce/Spaceman projects.

im starting to feel this way too. i geek out on him every chance i get. he doesn't top but he's up there.

[foreverasskiss]

Originally Posted by Severian

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, though... I feel like it's a more poppy album really, even though it's the very essence of maximalism & experimentation. But for all of it's bells and whistles and oddities, it's a more "normal" hip-hop album than Yeezus. It's full of big guest spots, and catchy choruses. It plays like the ideal hip-hop megahit, only without all the sketches and extended breaks in the action that most artists fluff their albums up with.

Yeezus is a deliberate, raging, iconoclastic challenge to both the listener and the media. It's as inaccessible and non-radio friendly as most post-punk albums... And to be honest, I think it's so far ahead of its time that it foreshadows what "post-hip-hop" will sound like whenever it becomes a thing.

And as much as I favor experimentation to normality, I can't help but prefer MBDTF, which is like an entire album's worth of "Hold My Liquor"-quality songs.

Every time I hear it is like the first time all over again, and each song pulls a different emotion out of me... Power is simply empowering, perfect for driving to work, where you waste your life as a corporate accountant, hated by most of your subordinates and superiors. All of the Lights is an epic ballad of a poverty stricken man, chillingly realistic and heavy handed as hell. Runaway is simply one of my all time favorite songs, irrespective of genre. Top ten, easy. It's also probably the most artistic and abstract hip-hop single to place on the billboard hot 100. If you're a dude and you can't relate to that song , you simply haven't had enough sexual relationships to understand the contradicting impulses that arise when monogamy is attempted. It's beautiful, and it has one of the nastiest little rolling grooves I've ever heard. You can feel it in your freaking veins when that bass kicks in.

great post, but MBDTF is just too 'prog' for me. Yeezus is just something totally quirky and out there that i cant not love it the best.

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

the last time i played Tha Carter 3 i was high and imagined some little horny gremlin man rapping over electronic carnival music.

Hahaha. I actually do like him on 2 Chainz' Yuck!, which I've been listening to a lot lately. Wayne's alright in small doses, but I've never understood the hype either. Dude can be funny though.

Originally Posted by louder

@ Dr. Eugene Felikson - Robb Banks' tape from last year "Tha City" seems right up your alley. there's a lot of SpaceGhostPurrp production on it.

I'll be sure to check it out. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Severian

Yeezus is a deliberate, raging, iconoclastic challenge to both the listener and the media. It's as inaccessible and non-radio friendly as most post-punk albums... And to be honest, I think it's so far ahead of its time that it foreshadows what "post-hip-hop" will sound like whenever it becomes a thing.

And as much as I favor experimentation to normality, I can't help but prefer MBDTF, which is like an entire album's worth of "Hold My Liquor"-quality songs.

Every time I hear it is like the first time all over again, and each song pulls a different emotion out of me... Power is simply empowering, perfect for driving to work, where you waste your life as a corporate accountant, hated by most of your subordinates and superiors. All of the Lights is an epic ballad of a poverty stricken man, chillingly realistic and heavy handed as hell. Runaway is simply one of my all time favorite songs, irrespective of genre. Top ten, easy. It's also probably the most artistic and abstract hip-hop single to place on the billboard hot 100. If you're a dude and you can't relate to that song , you simply haven't had enough sexual relationships to understand the contradicting impulses that arise when monogamy is attempted. It's beautiful, and it has one of the nastiest little rolling grooves I've ever heard. You can feel it in your freaking veins when that bass kicks in.

 

[louder]

"I listen to as much Top 40 as I listen to noise tapes. Pop music—especially really popular pop music—is as visceral as noise. When a pop song comes on, you feel something. I was just in the car and that Eminem/Rihanna song ["Monster"] came on—[sings] "I'm friends with the monster that's under my bed!" I was like, "Whoa! Hold the car! Hold it!" My world was spinning. I couldn't see straight. It's the same thing when I'm seeing [noise artist] the Rita play in a basement in Vancouver. You're like, "What is going on? Where am I?" You go blind for a second. It's totally sacrilegious to put the Rita and Rihanna in the same sentence, but I don't care because they give me the same feeling in a different way."

- Zola Jesus

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eugene Felikson

 

 

Originally Posted by Al Bundy

Don't eat the croissant!!

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by louder

"I listen to as much Top 40 as I listen to noise tapes. Pop music—especially really popular pop music—is as visceral as noise. When a pop song comes on, you feel something. I was just in the car and that Eminem/Rihanna song ["Monster"] came on—[sings] "I'm friends with the monster that's under my bed!" I was like, "Whoa! Hold the car! Hold it!" My world was spinning. I couldn't see straight. It's the same thing when I'm seeing [noise artist] the Rita play in a basement in Vancouver. You're like, "What is going on? Where am I?" You go blind for a second. It's totally sacrilegious to put the Rita and Rihanna in the same sentence, but I don't care because they give me the same feeling in a different way."

- Zola Jesus

<3.

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

^ Her new album, Taiga, is actually supposed to be a pop album. It drops in October. I've never been so excited for a Zola Jesus release before, honestly.

[Severian]

Apparently Zola Jesus is a bit of a bitch. That's what I take away from friends who've run into her, or known her.

I consider her a pop artist already. She can name drop and talk about noise all day, but there's really very little of it in her music. Just enough to make it an "alternative" to pop, but not enough for me to buy the "I'm a sophisticated noise rock chick" act. I like her music, but she is not some kind noise guru.

And why the hell is she just now developing an opinion on artists like Eminem and Rhianna? We've known Rhianna was tits since Umbrella. I wonder what she'll do when she realizes Beyoncé is a thing... Probably cause a five car pile up on the interstate.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eugene Felikson

I prefer Late Registration to MBDTF, but it's enjoyable. Not something I'd bump regularly. I don't really follow the dude too closely.

Heartbreaks is easily my favorite though.

I used to think Late Registration was almost crappy. I don't remember why. I mean, I still think that MBDTF, Yeezus, and Graduation are his best albums, but I used to put 808s next, then LR, then Dropout.

But everything's changed since I finally bought hard copies of Dropout and LR. I still think Dropout is the least amazing, but I no longer see his early non-experimental work as "crappy." It's kinda basic in terms of flow, but the production is rigoddamndiculous on ALL his albums.

Currently, this is how I rank the Kanye solo records:
1. My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (5/5)
2. Yeezus (5/5)
3. Graduation (5/5)
4. Late Registration (5/5 previously 4/5)
5. 808's & Heartbreak (5/5)
6. The College Dropout (4/5)

...

Now, as far as the whole Kanye discography goes, I'm gonna have to blow some minds:
1. My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
2. Yeezus
3. (Tie) Graduation / Kanye West presents GOOD Music: Cruel Summer
5. Kanye West & Jay-Z - Watch the Throne
6. Late Registration
7. 808s & Heartbreak
8. The College Dropout

I know most would probably call it sacrelige to include Cruel Summer in a list with the rest of the albums, especially so near the top, but I'll be goddamned if that isn't one of the most exceptional "filler" releases I've ever laid ears on.

When you compare it to similar comps like Young Money, Self-Made, etc. it becomes clear how much work and precision and care went into that album. It's not a showcase of artists, it's a group effort full-fledged ALBUM, with a concept and an epic kind of storyline and everything. Plus those guest spots are KILL. Ghostface? R Kelly? Fucking hot damn!

It's like... Kanye is beyond making generic "hip-hop" albums with all their over the top chest thumping and all their radio singles. Clearly he's not interested jn sharing the spotlight with a whole lot of other ninjas on his solo albums. So Cruel Summer feels like Kanye's version if what a Kanye West album would sound like if Kanye West was anything like any of the other rappers on the planet. Does that make sense? Like, if Kanye was Rick Ro$$, who makes great albums but isn't bothered by the fact that he only makes up 70% of the vocal tracks on any given record (tops). Most rappers are like that, or have been, historically. Even Ghostface... That brilliant mothetfuckers only made up about 1/3 of 12 Reasons to Die.

Kanye doesn't play like that. But Cruel Summer could easily be a "Kanye West" album by industry standards. Also, his choice in collaborators is simply brilliant. It's not just some new label sampler; it's a proper fucking album. And Kanye let's loose on it, allowing himself to get a little silly and a little obstinate, like he did on his old singles with ChildRebelSoldier and other early GOOD releases.

It should be considered as brilliant as WTR, but what do you expect when pitchfork gives it a review that is a whole 2.14537 arbitrary points lower? Obviously the album was doomed.

(I really think P4K needs to be taken down somehow, btw. Open to suggestions)

[noisereductions]

I consider Cruel Summer a Kanye album.