[Пятхъдесят Шест]

You're right, it would not be a total shock if Ukraine tops Italy.

Something different about this Spanish team wouldn't you say? It would be something if Spain wins the World Cup, with Sevilla winning the UEFA Cup and Barcelona taking the Champions League in the same year. And how about beating England in the final...strange coincidence.


BAH! Who am I kidding?! Spain winning the World Cup? When pigs fly!

[acousticrock87]

Agh I forgot about the game. I missed two days I think. Oh well, I made it in time to send out Brazil.

[pokkeherrie]

portugal-holland was one of the weirdest games i've ever seen for holland, maybe only topped by a friendly game against belgium in 1999 or so (final score 5-5!) or that penalty disaster against italy in euro 2000. anyway, terrible referee, but portugal would've won either way. the dutch lacked creativity, were not cool enough to keep their heads (maybe lack of experience?) and not sharp enough in finishing chances.

the referee should have sent off figo and van bommel in my opinion, they were the main instigators. heitinga's not returning the ball was bad sportsmanship, but i can understand his frustration because of course the portugese "injury" that made them shoot the ball out was just another way of time wasting. all in all i don't think the game was that dirty to warrant so many cards though. nobody broke any bones; most bookings were for talking, time wasting, unsportsmanslike conduct and that kind of stuff. portugal's many cards will probably break them up if they manage to reach far this world cup. the game against england could be one with many cards too. if portugal wins that one then they'll be in a similar position as argentina in 1990.

tomorrow's games shold be interesting. spain vs france could be a very close one. sadly i doubt ghana will be able to upset brazil, and missing essien won't help either.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

How did the Dutch press cover the game/controversy?

[pokkeherrie]

Originally Posted by Пятхъдесят Шест

How did the Dutch press cover the game/controversy?

most media draw the conclusion that an experienced and sly portugal outsmarted the somewhat unexperienced dutch squad. but they also mention more players could have been sent off (boulahrouz right for his first tackle on ronaldo, nuno valente for kicking robben on the shoulder etc.). also they ask why portugal is somehow so difficult to beat for holland time and again. there's not a single country holland has such a bad record against, including brazil etc.

about the referee they write that he completely lost it. (personally i had a bad feeling when i found out we would have the same referee as the one from france-switzerland)

they're also paying attention to the unsuccesful attacking display this tournament (too many long balls, not creating enough chances, etc) and then mention van basten is on the right way in rejuvenating the team, but that there's still a lot of work to be done.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

Interesting. There were several happenings in the first half involving Robben that I though could have brought a card, a few of them were in the box at that.

Also, why keep Nistelrooij on the bench? Even late in the game?

[pokkeherrie]

yeah, but robben already earned himself a bad name worldwide because of diving (which of course he couldn't resist doing on sunday too). it really works against him, but he's got himself to blame.

van nistelrooij is really a finisher, not really a team player who can create his own chances. he needs to rely on feed from midfield or the wings and there just wasn't enough of that in this world cup. van der vaart either injured or not match-fit, sneijder disapointing, robben going for own glory, van persie not a really winger and on top of that a leftfooter playing on the right... the idea was that kuyt would be better in linking up midfield., but that didn't really work either. i don't think van nistelrooij would have been a good pinch-hitter though, so i agreed with keeping him on the bench late in the game. i have my hopes up for huntelaar in 2008.

[Bertrand]

I hadn't seen Kuyt before the cup and he gave me some good impressions. He's surely youg and will remember all that has happened when Holland try to qualify for the European Cup.

Totti's thumb : I believe that it has to do with his relatively recent fatherhood (3 months ago or so).

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by pokkeherrie

...all in all i don't think the game was that dirty to warrant so many cards though...

It's quite telling that no straight red cards were given; all four were for second yellows.

It's always dodgy picking DUtch players for the fantasy team, as their team selection always seems to be affecte by internal wranglings - my man van Persie scored a few points, but I didn't dare pick more thaam one despite them having such a good squad.

As the fantay game rolls on, and we all have similar players scoring, it'll be the choice of captain that's most important perhaps?

[Hip Priest]

Brasil were a bit cheeky today, really - they didn't see the need to exert themselves against Ghana, thinking it would be a straightforward win anyway.

They were right. Only one African tem in the second round, and no African teams at all in the quarter finals. And all that with the next World Cup being hosted in Africa in 2010, by South Africa (who didn't even qualify for this one).

Ronaldo still looks out of sorts, but the fact remains that if you give hime a few chances, then he'll score one or two goals. He's scored 12 points today (doubled for me, as he's my captain).

Spain vs France is very hard to call, really; France can play much better if they try, whilst Spain have only looked especially impressive in that 4 - 0 win. It could be tight. But Spain seem to be the legitimate favourites.

[Bertrand]

Nice game. France wins. Determination in the eyes of the players, then happiness and trust - all these things that were missing. Beautiful goals. Sad for Puyol.

[Hip Priest]

Sad for Spain, of course, but I do feel that they only really excelled in one game. They've got a good generation of players though, and should be a big threat in the Switzerland & Austria European Championships.

I am glad for France though. Great finish by Zidane, and it's good to see Viera on form. They have so much talent - if the France vs Brasil lives up to possibilities, then it'll be a fine spectacle.

How confident are the French people, Bertrand?

[Bertrand]

Well, I don't know much about them all. To be honest, I won't go out to celebrate, gotta be up early tomorrow for work (and they don't dig football much there - I work for and with athletes, but athletes who won't probably earn as much as a footballer - and they're currently too concerned with their scholar exams or their own competitions).
I'd say the opinion's quite versatile here. I read a first review of the game, it's as if coach Domenech had never been criticized (but they're all, apart from the Swiss and one or two others).
I spoke with a friend from Portuguese origins, on the day Portugal faced Iran. I asked him a few questions during the game, and his answers would probably apply to lots of persons. He told me he couldn't imagine his (second) country to lose. I asked him if he thought of the team winning in the end. And he told me that he couldn't either. We kinda felt strange.
In a Nick Hornby book, there's that also. Hornby describes his life as an Arsenal fan, always being there, prepared for the defeat, hoping for it not to come, and surprised by victory, but not that happy, for a final victory would change so many things.
That's how I felt back in 1998.
I guess there are some cars downtown honking here and there, prudently (my town ain't big and lively, and it's not the semis).
The radio mentions scenes of happiness, people starting to believe in the team NOW.

[Hip Priest]

In England, the people are following the team closely, watching religiously, but not sensing great things - overcoming the first real quality opposition on Saturday, especially with a stylish performance, would change everything though. Strange atmosphere, diffferent to other big tournaments.

Brasil can always get goals, obviously, but I think that the French midfield and defence is capable of killing off most good moves - Ronaldo has not looked on top form, and this will be the first time in this tournament that he will have faced such good defending.

You played well tonight - well enough that the previous uninspired performances can be forgotten a little, and the confidence form beating a team with so much potential must be a great bonus. Getting goals from three different players is good too, it gives a sense that good things might come from anywhere, rather than relying on one player.

Chimbonda hasn't played yet, which is a shame. I kind of wish Emmanual Petit was still around too - he was a favourite of mine.

[Bertrand]

Chimbonda's selection was the cause of so many jokes, you wouldn't believe it, as you have the opportunity to see him play.
When Domenech announced that he would be in the 23 players list, I was not the only to ask myself : where does this guy comes from? All the French remembered was his time in Bastia, and the fact that he nearly cried when people mocked monkey grunts every single time he touched the ball.
His inclusion gave a comedy show some opportunities to make people laugh (not offensively) about that fact : the French team had a secret weapon that was sooo secret that noone even knew what it was.

Yes, Emmanuel Petit was a favorite of mine too. And the third goal in the 1998 final to make it all the more perfect.
He left the national team with a bit of bitterness I think, but overcame it, since an injury put an end to his carreer.
What most French supporters didn't understand was Domenech's decision not to include Pires and Giuly (both of them played the Barcelona-Arsenal final this year), and not to select Anelka either.
Lots of bad press about Dhorasoo, Vieira's shape (I agreed with that) and even Zidane (who had been applauded when he came back a few months before - versatility again).

[Hip Priest]

Pascal Chimbonda would be welcomed into the England team, no doubt about it! Hwas named in this year's Professional Footballer's Association team of the year, which is not bad for a defender playing for such a 'small' club as Wigan Athletic. Everyone in England has been very impressed with him - he's one of those players (often French, for some reason) who are well-respected by all fans. He hasn't played though, so he's earned me nil points so far. It's a big surprise to hear the French reaction to his inclusion in the squad. He deserves the reward though.

I can see the confusion about Giuly, Pires (classy player) and Anelka, but I have to confess that I don't really know much about Dhorasoo. The fact that such players as Giuly, Pires and Anelka can be left out shows the extent to which you have quality players available, though - for all the supposed qualities of this English football generation, it has to be said that we do not have that luxury.

[Bertrand]

Dhorasoo plays in a 'big' club, Paris-Saint-Germain, a club whose president gave the boot to the coach for no particular reason. There's always been a lot of pressure on this team since it's the only team of the capital.
Yes : there's only one team in Paris, when there are several in London (Tottenham, Wimbledon, Arsenal, Chelsea...), Liverpool (Everton), Manchester, etc...
The Paris-Saint-Germain season was disappointing this year, and Dhorasoo was more than once put the blame on. Some friends of mine, former colleagues, and more journalists insisted on the fact that there was another French midfield that had done much better : Johan Micoud, from Bremen. Alas alas.

The Spanish team was deprived of Guti.
The British team, well, you're probably right, I can't see who could have been left behind or who could replace Owen in a near future. The championship is stuffed with foreigners, it doesn't help.
Hargreaves is the only one to play abroad. I wonder how he is considered.
(By the way, his name is a problem for our oldest TV football host Thierry Roland : he wouldn't pronounce his name properly, at times it's Heargreaves, a few minutes later it's Hargraves, and most of the time, he calls him Heargraves, which would be kind of poetic if he only knew English a little).

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by Bertrand

Dhorasoo plays in a 'big' club, Paris-Saint-Germain, a club whose president gave the boot to the coach for no particular reason. There's always been a lot of pressure on this team since it's the only team of the capital.
Yes : there's only one team in Paris, when there are several in London (Tottenham, Wimbledon, Arsenal, Chelsea...), Liverpool (Everton), Manchester, etc...
The Paris-Saint-Germain season was disappointing this year, and Dhorasoo was more than once put the blame on. Some friends of mine, former colleagues, and more journalists insisted on the fact that there was another French midfield that had done much better : Johan Micoud, from Bremen. Alas alas.

I remember PAris Saint Germain looked like becoming a big team in Europe, too, maybe ten years ago? They used to have a very nice club crest, with the Eiffel Tower, but they changed it to a crap one, just the letters PSG. That's where it all started to go wrong (or maybe not)!

Originally Posted by Bertrand

The British team, well, you're probably right, I can't see who could have been left behind or who could replace Owen in a near future. The championship is stuffed with foreigners, it doesn't help.

I actually think that all of the foreigners are a good thing; they are nearly all very good players, which should mean that the English guys are getting great competitive experience every week. There are less English players playing in the league, but those who are there are the best and should be developing as aa result. Our clubs now do better in Europe too. Also, it's great for the fans - so many wonderful players, and now we will see Shenchenko (gosh), which is fantastic.

To be fair, We have improved overall since the foreign players came to join us, but not as much as we should have.

Maybe the problem is partly that all of the teams we play against have so much experience of our style, and our players, and know how to combat us?

Originally Posted by Bertrand

Hargreaves is the only one to play abroad. I wonder how he is considered.

I like him a lot, I have to say, although he has had a poor reception - he even got booed when he came on at a friendly just before the World Cup! Ludicrous. He hadn't actually played well for England until very recently (in this tournament, in fact), so the criticism was to some extent understandable. He's doing well now.

Originally Posted by Bertrand

(By the way, his name is a problem for our oldest TV football host Thierry Roland : he wouldn't pronounce his name properly, at times it's Heargreaves, a few minutes later it's Hargraves, and most of the time, he calls him Heargraves, which would be kind of poetic if he only knew English a little).

I remember when Cameroon came to Italia '90 and a player called Roger Miller came on. His name is just pronounced as it would be if it were an English name, but our commentator decided it should be much more exotic, and was calling him something like 'Rowshay Millay' (the best apporximation I can manage!).

'Heargraves' is nice, like the name of a quaint English village. Twelve houses and a pub.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

I missed the entire Brazil - Ghana game, but it doesn't appear that I missed much. Work, once again gets in the way.

I started to watch France - Spain, but fell asleep about 15 minutes in. Oh well, some nice strikes I see from the highlights.

No games until Friday, eh? Excited about the Germany - Argentina clash.

[Hip Priest]

All four quarter-finals have the chance to be good, providing Ukraine make the effort to take the game to Italy. Learn from Australia's mistake and force the Italians to play - too many people let Italian teams dictate the pace, which is just falling into their trap.

2 days without games. It doesn't seem right, somehow! Yesterday's refereeing was a bit more sensible on the whole, I thought.