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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
ok, not to be a smartass, but i find that statement quite fucking oppressive-- god the busybody! quit snooping!
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Are you telling God to quit snooping? Are you accepting that He can hear you? That makes me feel very happy.
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
about the rest of the stuff, i know there are arguments against reading that "I am the way, the truth, and the life" passage in such a narrow way-- but it's so easy to read it in many ways it becomes a free for all.
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That's precisely why everything should be related back to the words - and the spirit - of Jesus teachings. Otherwise you end up with things like Calvin's predestination. And we don't need theories like that.
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
which brings us to the fact of scriptural interpretation-- there's so much and there's so many contradictions, anyone can find something to explain anything they do. the bible has been used to justify slavery, to kill homosexuals, to wage "holy" wars...
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Yes it does, yes there are, yes they can. But it's not hard to spot if something is going against the teachings of Jesus. In fact, it's about as difficult as breathing.
The whole debate about contradictions and stuff is something I'm happy to discuss, but I won;t expand upon it right now.
All of the bad behaviour you rightly point out is nothing to do with being religious, it's to do with being human. Totally secular countries haven't been moral pillars either.
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
too much of a mess to sort through, in my opinion. i'm much happier with reasonable laws on a civil society. in spite of lawyers and their own twisted interpretations. sure, civil society isn't perfect, but it doesn't make claims on my secret life.
now, if you want to be a nice person, etc, you sure don't need the whole apparatus of a church. i understand that not everyone is that way though, and my parents for example get some sort of relief or reassurance or consolation or guidance or encouragement from their sunday church. so as long as people keep their religion to themselves, i'm not opposed to it. but when they try to stop gays from marrying (see: california prop 8) and promote other various atrocities (child abuse via the teaching of creationism in science class), i have to weight if they do more evil than good...
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The same goes for the atheists. I know atheists who are not bullies or bigots. And I know ones who are. They are every bit as repulsive as the aggressive Christians.
But I think we should avoid saying that talking about something is the same as forcing something upon you. Otherwise we should all shut up about everything. And the forum would be a tad dull.