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Originally Posted by Glice
Yes to Weird War.
I don't think they were taking the piss - I'm on very shaky territory here, but I've always had the impression they were parodying hardcore by obviating its latent pop content... but also opening up hardcore to other ideas. Or, to my mind, injecting some sense of 'other' influences into a genre that, at its very worst, is nothing but self-congratulatory, repititious, a-musical shit. 'A-musical' isn't, in itself, a bad thing - but hardcore very often (to me, as a self-confessed non-appreciator of hardcore) seems to repeat the hallowed classics for no ostensible reason. I should qualify this - as a social phenomenon, hardcore is a great deal of fun. I've spent an amount of time at local hardcore shows, and as a live thing I can't fault it. I don't always enjoy hardcore shows musically, but I nearly always do for the social 'coming-together'. But that's entirely different to its existence as an 'art-form', in which capacity it bores me rigid, most of the time.
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yes, i understood what you meant with the parody without the higher ground and stupidity. what i meant is that since they were a hardcore band that took a branch from the same tree most bands were taking their cues from, while at the same time opening it's musical doors seems like a better conscious, post modern concept, in a way similar (only similar) to sy's approach to classic rock and 80's pop. nothing wrong with it.
but then, you're talking about contexts and forms and well, i really appreciate mostly the finished product instead of the process so that's probably why i don't dig them.
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I think the Refused comparison is spot on - Refused have had a massive influence on the hardcore scene, mostly for shape of punk to come (I have heard This just might be the truth, by the way) which took a handful of ideas from other places - nothing avant-garde, nothing too weird, nothing exceptionally ground-breaking by comparison to someone like (ur...) SY - but a handful of ideas and somehow broke through the tepid anti-creativity of hardcore. Maybe I'm hearing the wrong hardcore (although if anyone other than Mr Neurotic wants to tell me which hardcore I should listen to - don't, I've probably heard it) but NOU do do something which the majority of hardcore I've heard entirely fails to do.
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Having said all that, if NOU don't float your boat, it's really not going to make any difference to anyone or anything.[/quote]
what i think refused excel in wasn't their "radical" musical explorations or their "radical" ideologies and lyrics. i think they excelled because they wrote damn good songs in a variety of styles, making (in the shape of punk to come) a very solid album from start to finish, also something i feel ulysses lacked. the proof is that so many bands have taken ideas from that album and that band and most of them are conformists within their genre and scene.
and uhler; the international noise conspiracy are laughably lame, they probably heard the hives were going to sign to a major label and thought of jumping on the bandwagon at the same time. i'm still amazed it's the same guy in both bands.