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Originally Posted by dead_battery
its already been posted, most of the important stuff here but lots more elsewhere. you can go search it out yourself which is what anyone who wants to comment should have done in the first place. it's right there and this pretense there is some reason for doubt is getting tedious. she definitely lied like she lied about and admitted to lying about 3 other fabricated sexual assaults.
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Um. I'm the person who posted this thread, remember? I read every available account prior to doing so, and I have read everything since. So slow your roll there, buddy. I was actually backing you up at the beginning, until I realized that you weren't saying "my gut feeling is that she's lying," you were presuming to KNOW.
It doesn't matter if she's lied about other things. That's not a reason to not take her accusation seriously. Even if she were to admit that she lied about Gira, that wouldn't by any means prove that a rape never occurred.
I think you're really just not understanding where anyone is coming from here. I'm not saying she's not lying, and I'm not saying Gira's lying... I'm just flabbergasted by your insistence that you can be SURE that Gira is innocent. I would love for him to be innocent, but I'm not going to close myself off to the possibility that he isn't.
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promoting the idea that she is not lying means you are saying gira is.
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What? What? First off, nobody who's arguing with your cockamamie tirades is actually saying that Larkin is not lying. NOBODY IS SAYING SHE'S NOT LYING. How are you not getting this? You are the only one making a finite claim about this. All we're saying is that WE DON'T KNOW, and that it would be foolish and overly simplistic to jump to the conclusion that she is lying based on the purely anecdotal evidence in place. That doesn't mean we think Gira is! For Christ's sake man, if you're going to start a shitstorm, at least TRY to put some thought into things.
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and btw, i will not be dragged around in circles about this for page after page so certain egos can prove themselves right. i am not repeating any of the points i've already made and will ignore requests to do so. and yes, gira has been condemned as guilty by rob and others in this thread who are pretending you didn't imply the same which is bs. please take the last word because that is the last thing you are getting from me on this.
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I hope so. I have nothing against you personally, but I have to again wonder if you're even equipped to be involved in this conversation. It requires higher order thinking to weigh two sides of an unproven argument, and the only way to do it is to not jump to conclusions, and to consider the EXTREMELY COMPLEX societal and legal definitions of the terms that are on the table.
You are the only person who's claiming to know anything, and you're getting angry at everyone else for saying they don't know.
You act like we're all burning Michael Gira in effigy here. Not so. I personally hope the truth comes out and that his name is cleared, not only because I like the guy but I'd rather it be the case that a woman lied about being raped than that a woman actually was raped. I hope Larkin is lying, for her own sake! Rape is awful. I'd be delighted for everyone involved if she turned out to be lying.
But it's goddamn idiotic to pretend that you know the truth about this when the details might not even be known to Grimm and Gira.
Wake the fuck up!