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Originally Posted by kinn
How is my any part of my argument invalid?
You just said that because middle class people often can't afford uni either that means my argument is invalid.
This makes absolutely no sense.
Teaching total bullshit? Why did you even say that? The point of school is so you are not taught total bullshit. Thats why we need education. That's why we need more education, to improve the standard of thought, and improve the standard of teaching.
Also. NOT anyone who wants to go to school can. This is what we have been talking about the whole time. Many people can't go because they can't afford. They get free education up to a certain point yes. But the qualifications you get with that education is very rarely enough to get you into a high paid job or have a chance at being in the middle class by the time you are 30.
Not many people starve to death in America yes. But millions die early due to poor nutrition because of their poverty. Millions of lives are lived below the potential they could have been lived at. Education is a way to ameliorate the problems of poverty and one of the best ways to give people a chance to actually be able to make a decent standard of living in the future. Millions of people also don't go on to do amazing and important things economically or socially because they haven't had a good education, comforts in life and the opportunity to develop their minds instead of having to use them solely to survive from mouth to mouth.
Without education subsidies the working class/lower middle class cannot afford a post high school education. This means they go on to make less money, have less skills and make less innovations and general progress. This decreases wealth for the WHOLE of the society. Not just them.
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Because YOU, my friend were attempting to state that
a difference between poor and middle class is a struggle when it comes to furthering one's education. + the examples you've used apply to not one, but both class systems, hence...argument invalid (at least that part....I thought the rest of your debate held some water)....and yes, I'm not totally ignorant and do realize cultural upbringing can have an effect on things....but this is another debate and doesn't nec. have to apply.
So you are saying universities opt to teach total truth, while K-12 doesn't? Some may....but this still doesn't take away from Asbury College in Kentucky, and establishments of the like. If k-12 was restructured, if what was taught (and how it is taught) was restructured...things would be far different. If as many people were as interested in challenging that that are challenging "free school" (mind you, K-12 is free), and chose to create a better K-12, we might not even be having this debate.
Think of what is generally taught in grades K-12, and then consider a few others courses/changes that could be added to that curriculum...and at least ask yourself if it might possibly make a difference....This is in response to the "stupid society" you were talking about.
There are plenty that can't go because they can't afford it, true...there are also plenty that didn't apply themselves early enough in the game as well. You decide to fuck off in HS...get terrible grades, maybe even drop out...well, does this sound like someone you'd pull money out of your own wallet to help go to college. If so, great...most wouldn't be interested. Most that make the grades, CAN get in (taken they want to)...of course this means debt, but it means debt to anyone that attends (a fact suchfriends made clear earlier, when arguing as to why schools should be free...and good points he did make)...It's not hard to get into a university (even if it might not be one of yr choice) even if you are poor....this might entail moving and borrowing so much money that it will take ya 50 years to pay it back...but POOR PEOPLE CAN AND DO GET INTO COLLEGE....look up Ft. Valley State University....of course, it's a shit school in a shit town, but it is a university none-the-less. I'm sure they have at least some intelligent professors and a fantastic library...I GOT IN ON A MINORITY SCHOLARSHIP...because a), my mom was basically poor (I was too at the time), and b) I'M WHITE. I was accepted and enrolled, but backed out after not wanting to wait 4 hours to sign up for my classes. At the time it boiled down to laziness on my end, sure, but today it still remains a decision I do not regret. Money + time would have been wasted on a meaningless art degree at least partially paid for by (like myself...) hard working people that don't + will never even know my name. I'm sure it wouldn't make any of them happy knowing some asshole with an art degree paid for by their hard-earned dollar is working at some 7-11 or the equivalent (just an example, I don't work for 7-11 but it's a well established fact that an art degree doesn't do much for most in the way of finding a good job)....
What I've said above, is where I'm split on this issue. I don't mind knowing my tax dollars might be paying for someone to go to school that may one day give me a heart transplant....but I damned sure don't like the idea of paying for someone to get a (other than personal interest....) degree in something that doesn't make my or anyone else's life any better. You want a degree in art or philosophy, you pay for it or better yet study on yr own time.