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Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
I love you my man, but if you really think religion is not DIRECTLY to blame for much of the world's intolerance, racism, and bigotry then you may need to rethink yr positions!
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no rob, not religions, intolerance, and I know you are not even remotely naive enough to assume that religion itself creates these things, rather than these things exist and are as much a part of religion as much as any other parts of our societies. The problem is not religion, it is intolerance, bigotry, hatred and racism, and these will exist even beyond religion I assure you, and if you are intolerant and even a bigot against religion your just being counter-productive and contributing to the problem. If people want to be religious that is there right, so long as they do not guise their intolerance and bigotry in veils of religious symbolism and rhetoric, because in all its form, intolerance and bigotry are wrong.
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Originally Posted by jon boy
you have no idea what your talking about as per usual. i would suggest the reason why a cathederal sized anything being built in marseille is being rejected by the locals is they dont want a huge great building being erected outside their homes. and if you have ever been to auschwitz or any holocaust memorials, i would suggest going to the one in la you would know that they are not disneyesque. be safe in the knowledge that your government is paying $20 million to the upkeep of auschwitz.
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dude, nothing the US government does surprises me anymore
why would the people of Marseille object to it? We have a few lovely mosques of such size and proportion in Los Angeles and we don't have a practicing muslim population even remotely the size of French Muslims..
see here is what countries like the UK and France need to accept, they were colonial powers in islamic regions, and have developed immigration and economic ties with these regions, in fact, correct me if I am wrong, but are not many of these folks now citizens of these countries?
Call me old fashioned, but if you are a citizen in a society, you have a certain right to worship as you see fit, being a minority or not. If these Muslim residents are legal, and some or many are in fact even citizens, should they not have this right? Who are you to say how large their place of worship should be? Am I not wrong to accuse the locals there of intolerance?
I think you miss my point entirely with this thread by the way, the issue is not whether I give a shit one way or another about mosque building in Europe, but rather my comment that if they prohibit these buildings, either through legal or social pressure, then it will only come to bite Europeans in the ass they way Islamic militancy has already brought violence in places like the UK or Spain.. European Muslims seem to be pissed off enough to use violence, something surprisingly enough American Muslims are not doing...
It seems absurd to not let these mosques get built, what is honestly the harm?
In the US our 'colonial' relationship is with the Americas and Asia, and our cities are flooded with these immigrants, and we tolerate and even enjoy our many Buddhists/Hindu temples and shrines, what major city doesn't have an elaborate china town, and of course a ridiculous amount of Mexican and Central American catholic churches and communities which have single-handedly changed the face of American catholicism and in many places in the US represent 75-90% if Catholics.
Muslims are a legal and rightful part of European society, their places of worship are no less valid or appropriate then traditional European ones. Presently in that part of France, there are only 2 legitimate (and small) mosques and most muslims there pray in basements and living rooms..
quit assuming I don't know what I talk about, it is fallacious to try to argue against my credibility and completely side-step the real issues..