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Originally Posted by sarramkrop

American- Irish and American- Italians are the main culprits for that, and it annoys me because you only happen to be born in one place, not two at the same time.

yes mr. porks but see the thing that happens is this--

i was just watching the deer hunter which features this "ethnic" community of russian americans (or is it rusyns? im trying to find out).

one thing that happens to immigrants in this country is that for survival reasons they tend to band together and create these micro universes. you have a chinatown and a "little italy" in new york, and these is where once upon a time these people lived. same with many other cities in america.

as people live together they tend to maintain a lot of their language, traditions, foods, religious practices, etc. they publish their own newspapers and have their own political action groups and their own interests.

think of cuban exiles in miami, they are still "cuban", and though there are new generations that don't give a shit about fidel, i can guarantee you they have a sense of identity as "cubans", a larger one perhaps as "latinos", and an overarching sense of being "americans".

of course these differences might fade over time but not enough time has passed yet to erase the traces of these... micro-nations. i don't know many italian americans who are protestant, for example...

one funny thing that's happening, i think, is that with this support of multiethnic identities a lot of people are "recovering" their lost heritages. now, don't ask me what that means, but that's what's happening. there is something about that discussed in in toffler's "the third wave" but i didn't pay too much attention to that chapter. oh yes, it's about the dissolution of the nation-state, and the return to local identities (like the italian paese). often times though this identity is not so much geographical as some sort of... internet phenomenon, almost.

now while nations with a stronger cultural identity might absorb other groups, the united states are not the presumed "melting pot" of cultures they've been delcared to be, but actually a salad bowl where bits of broccoli mix with bits of carrot and a spinach leaf and a chunk of bacon, etc.

this coupled with a higher tolerance for religious and other freedoms allows this "multicultural" scenario we have today. where french schoolgirls are banned from wearing a headscarf in public schools, here the law protects the right of muslim women to wear headscarves in school and at the workplace, for example.

the english people i've met as well tend to be quite uniform in their thinking and their ethos-- they've display these highly codified behaviors, and notions of right and wrong. i know there is a tradition of english eccentrics carrying the culture forward, but this is probably in opposition to the uniformity of everyone else-- everyone knows what's expected of them and your whole life is scripted for you according to your class, education and geographical location. now i don't intend to offend anyone with these observations, and if i am please let me know.

in america however there is a greater diversity of people and social mobility, a sense that you should mind your own business and stay clear of other people, and more of an uncertainty about what's acceptable and what's not-- so you need lawyers to define that for everyone. and in this atmosphere of social laissez-faire, social cohesiveness is lost and a lot of subcultures tend to develop in place. how important these are i don't know, but there seems to be room for any kind of peculiar lifestyles and religions in this vast vast country.

let me say this though--i'm not at all into identity politics, i do not let my culture be limited by my place or my geography, and i don't give a shit about belonging to any particular group, unless pushed-- that' s my choice. but i can't deny that a lot of people tend to identify to whatever tribes they belong to, and this seems to be very imporant to them. why exactly, is beyond my understanding, but that's how it is how it is how it is how it is.