[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

yes! in the right context, with a fitting inflection, of course it is.

just like "I seek pleasure." which is a rather pedestrian phrase, that could be said by any dumbfuck, but not when you put it in the context of patti smith's babelogue.

and even patti smith wrote a number of crappy lines.

so did walt whitman. he wrote a death sonnet for motherfucking custer, for fucks sakes:
FROM far Dakota's cañons,
Lands of the wild ravine, the dusky Sioux, the lonesome stretch, the
silence,
Haply to-day a mournful wail, haply a trumpet-note for heroes.

^^there. the greatest american poet wrote that piece of crap. he also wrote i sing the body electric, crossing brooklyn ferry, i hear america singing, etc. so you gotta take the good with the bad.

the fact is that when you give yourself permission to be free and let things come out a lot is going to come out and the genius will be mixed with the stupidity that we all share as humans, but if you only focus on the shortcomings the world is going to look pretty ugly no matter what.

in any case i think elisa does a wonderful channeling of her deepest unconscious, and i love that energy and that freedom. those teeth rattling in the can are forever etched in my memory.

one: "i seek pleasure" gives you a fair number of mental images by itself, let alone in the context of patti's lyrics. two: that walt whitman poem you quoted is a FUCKING POEM, a good poem indeed, you hate it because you know who the subject matter is about.

but the only thing i can think about the "big breasts" shit elisa talks about is how society builds an image for a woman and stereotypes it's role in society, blah blah blah = kathleen hanna bullshit (who was a much better lyricist by the way, and she wasn't what you call great) = pretentious poser typical reactionary leftist thinking. AND THAT'S assuming she meant something "deep" with that line, which i doubt, it's probably just gibberish in the name of "automatic writing".

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

of course it can be. why not? the mc5 were great primitives.

i'm not questioning mc5's lyrical quality, i'm questioning plagiarism. if i came up with an I/C/O/C song and read the lyrics to the stooges' "no fun" on top of it, i bet everyone would tell me what an unoriginal idiot i am, but when elisa appropriates "rambling rose", then it's "art" and "deep"

but, in fact, she's quite unoriginal even in her so called "poetry".

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

nope. that which you wrote above is. it's also bad prose.

i like some of the stuff she's written for boss; and if you've seen her onstage. you will now that she becomes possessed, inhabited by a Loa, she is a sybil, a witch, a savage priestess, she rhapsodizes and enthralls, and the audiences go INSANE because they know they are in the presence of something that comes from another world, and that cannot be faked, and we all share in that. i was there, and i felt that, and your pompous criticism cannot compete with the delight of my experience.

and poetry is not pretty words, poetry is the language of the sacred, the language of imagination, and beyond mere words it is a force and it induces altered states and visions and ecstasy and you can feel it or you can't.

and on the subject of words, when you happen to name one of your songs something as wonderful and funny and brutal (it has to be all 3 at the same time) as "dreaming of vegas and pussy and victory," please let me know, and i'll send you a crown of laurels.

what?! you think i'm trying to answer you in poetry? why would i do that? i'm just clearing a point here.

when you listen to a lee ranaldo or a stephen malkmus, those guys can write great lyrics in automatic writing, i haven't heard a single line elisa has proclaimed (she doesn't sing or scream, she's like a poetry reader) that doesn't come out as overthought and pretentious, it's aimed at being this "brutal" academic deep improvised poetry...which reminds me of the point i try to make besides this, SHE'S A LYRICIST NOT A POET; if you're in a band, that's why i compared her (not in quality but in function) to lee and malkmus and not to a real poet, that's an aberration to call her a poet. she's a poet like high school goth kids are, or third generation riot girl wannabes.

and to finish the other point, i've read better lyrics, deep, subconscious, metaphorical lyrics from CANNIBAL CORPSE and those guys write terrible lyrics.

and YEAH, I'VE SEEN THEM LIVE, to repeat yet again; they were terrible, they didn't do shit but rock back and forth on their feet while they did shit feedback and did what lee and thurston and kim do with their guitars for over 25 years without the songs or the energy, elisa tried to approach one of the security people in the front of the stage, dude didn't respond, and she did nothing else. it was a big nothing. like ANY band, they can have a good night, but, judging also from the videos ecstatic peace used to put up, those good nights were few and far in between. it's been more lore than truth their "legendary" out of control shows.

you want a song title? "a world of cocks and lillacs"

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

you say "to complete MY explanation of why i don't like or get how someone like this band" as if the two were the same thing. you falsely equate the unstated reasons for your dislike with your inability to comprehend why OTHERS like it. it's two separate phenomena; deal with them separately. and your assumptions are false.

i'll tell you why i like them.

i like them because i like them. in a very direct and fundamental way.the same way i like the color red. "oh but i dont' like the color red and i can't understand why somebody woud". bah!! pure argumentative crapola. venom and bile.

the magik markers give me enjoyment and visions of something beyond the reach of reason, a female energy that i have seen only in prophetic dreams, and you can't possibly, in your wildest little dreams of total world domination, touch that magiCK because you are stuck in some stuffy little room having academic discussions.

anyway, i didn't know rock'n'roll and its many mutations required academic knowledge, perhaps you erred in your choice of genre and should have gone into classical music, where your erudition would be more appreciated by the coterie of intellectuals that rule the university periodicals.

people genuinely like something or they genuinely don't. there's also pretend, but people who pretend to like something when they don't can eat my petrified turds.

no, i said why I didn't get why people like them AND that i don't like them, there's an "and" in between, which doesn't equate them.

where do you get the "academic" shit? when have i brought that up? i said, and kinda gives it away that the post below you quoted and replied to, you didn't associate with this other post, that people don't know about CERTAIN BANDS that have done what mm have done but better yet, that if they knew about those bands, they probably would stop praising the markers so highly and know what they really are.

that said, i did say that I DON'T GET how people like them so much, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't like them, i mean, what do i care what you people like? a lot of people like cheese and i don't, i'm not going out of my way to tell them why they shouldn't eat it, i may explain WHY I DON'T like cheese but i wouldn't force them to stop doing so, just like I'M EXPLAINING why i don't like the magik fucking markers.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

what does rtx have to do with this? can't a person like both? who's said that the markers invented the wheel? what's up with this KEY bands? is your band a KEY band? so nobody should listen to it and like it? do we all need to erase 50 years of rocknroll and just stick to chuck berry?

and i don't give a shit about what music critics say, their superfluous discussions haven't the least impact upon my enjoyment or dislike of whatever i choose to listen.

see? this is what i meant.

ROYAL TRUX WERE AN EXAMPLE of a band who did something similar but SUCCEEDED.

if, say, the stooges had never formed or made records and 30 years on there was no one else who had attempted and succeed in doing the song with a wilder and improved edge then YES, i would rather listen to CHUCK BERRY, same as i don't need to listen to magik markers when i can well go listen to can't, mars and, yes, royal trux, to give you just three examples.

by the way, have i mentioned besides the hypothetical example in this very post, my bands in this thread? that's what i thought.