[!@#$%!]

my apologies for not having answered this sooner, but i've been busy, and in fact, i had something half-written and accidentally closed it, and didn't have time to recover it. but here it goes again.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

one: "i seek pleasure" gives you a fair number of mental images by itself, let alone in the context of patti's lyrics. two: that walt whitman poem you quoted is a FUCKING POEM, a good poem indeed, you hate it because you know who the subject matter is about.

no, that whitman stanza is a turd, whitman wrote a lot of turds, but he still wrote i sing the body electric, crossing brooklyn ferry, i hear america singing, etc., and he's still the greatest american poet.

see when you are free to say what's inside you a lot is going to come out, the genius mixed with the stupidity, and only those endowed with balls of steel (or, say, ovaries of fire) will come out & shout it all out without fear of castration.

and some crap will come out and some genius will come out and your audience will remember you for the genius not the crap.

the rest of the herd just cowers in a corner fearing imperfection and failure, calculate their every move and throw rocks at anybody who tries to let it all come out.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

but the only thing i can think about the "big breasts" shit elisa talks about is how society builds an image for a woman and stereotypes it's role in society, blah blah blah = kathleen hanna bullshit (who was a much better lyricist by the way, and she wasn't what you call great) = pretentious poser typical reactionary leftist thinking. AND THAT'S assuming she meant something "deep" with that line, which i doubt, it's probably just gibberish in the name of "automatic writing".

so it's the leftist feminism that bugs you. ha ha ha ha.

you know, whitman was full of manifest destiny and other shitty ideologies. just so you know.

but i happen to like leftist feminists, and anybody who is going to tell you you are not the king of rocknroll is great in my book.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

i'm not questioning mc5's lyrical quality, i'm questioning plagiarism. if i came up with an I/C/O/C song and read the lyrics to the stooges' "no fun" on top of it, i bet everyone would tell me what an unoriginal idiot i am, but when elisa appropriates "rambling rose", then it's "art" and "deep"

instead of wondering what people are going to call you if you cover or appropriate the stooges, you should grow some balls and do it anyway.

people who worry too much about what others will think are the permanent spectators of life.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

but, in fact, she's quite unoriginal even in her so called "poetry".

whatever.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

what?! you think i'm trying to answer you in poetry? why would i do that? i'm just clearing a point here.

ha ha ha ha. doctor, heal thyself.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

when you listen to a lee ranaldo or a stephen malkmus, those guys can write great lyrics in automatic writing, i haven't heard a single line elisa has proclaimed (she doesn't sing or scream, she's like a poetry reader) that doesn't come out as overthought and pretentious, it's aimed at being this "brutal" academic deep improvised poetry...which reminds me of the point i try to make besides this, SHE'S A LYRICIST NOT A POET; if you're in a band, that's why i compared her (not in quality but in function) to lee and malkmus and not to a real poet, that's an aberration to call her a poet. she's a poet like high school goth kids are, or third generation riot girl wannabes.

you're totally missing that i was making a broader definition of poetry than cobbling together words. i was speaking of a force of nature that connects everything, or some other quasi-mystical shit like that. but don't take my word for it-- go and read ruben dario on the subject and we'll discuss.

elisa is shamanic-- and that is that.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

and to finish the other point, i've read better lyrics, deep, subconscious, metaphorical lyrics from CANNIBAL CORPSE and those guys write terrible lyrics.

oh yeah if you like right-wing death-obsessed shlocky men

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

and YEAH, I'VE SEEN THEM LIVE, to repeat yet again; they were terrible, they didn't do shit but rock back and forth on their feet while they did shit feedback and did what lee and thurston and kim do with their guitars for over 25 years without the songs or the energy, elisa tried to approach one of the security people in the front of the stage, dude didn't respond, and she did nothing else. it was a big nothing. like ANY band, they can have a good night, but, judging also from the videos ecstatic peace used to put up, those good nights were few and far in between. it's been more lore than truth their "legendary" out of control shows.

maybe it didn't work for you, or maybe you just put the jinx on them. did you ever watch the movie "the cooler"?

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

you want a song title? "a world of cocks and lillacs"

eww, what? first, i don't like cocks. who likes cocks? they look like turnkey necks. second, it's spelled lilacs, but whatever. the image is claustrophobic and sad, whereas "dreaming of vegas and pussy and victory" has this open-ended rhythm forward-moving energy that connot be stopped.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

no, i said why I didn't get why people like them AND that i don't like them, there's an "and" in between, which doesn't equate them.

yeah but you give 1 explanation for both things.

"oh i don't like the color red, and i can't understand why others can't, and it's because of this..."

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

where do you get the "academic" shit? when have i brought that up? i said, and kinda gives it away that the post below you quoted and replied to, you didn't associate with this other post, that people don't know about CERTAIN BANDS that have done what mm have done but better yet, that if they knew about those bands, they probably would stop praising the markers so highly and know what they really are.

well because you seem to imply that enjoyment of rocknroll requires "study of the old masters". and it doesn't.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

that said, i did say that I DON'T GET how people like them so much, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't like them, i mean, what do i care what you people like? a lot of people like cheese and i don't, i'm not going out of my way to tell them why they shouldn't eat it, i may explain WHY I DON'T like cheese but i wouldn't force them to stop doing so, just like I'M EXPLAINING why i don't like the magik fucking markers.

you tried to explain with one explanation why you don't like them and why you don't understand other people liking them, that's all.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

see? this is what i meant.

ROYAL TRUX WERE AN EXAMPLE of a band who did something similar but SUCCEEDED.

or sucked seed. i dont think the mm are trying to to what rtx did, are they? and can't one like both? i like both, differently and for different reasons.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

if, say, the stooges had never formed or made records and 30 years on there was no one else who had attempted and succeed in doing the song with a wilder and improved edge then YES, i would rather listen to CHUCK BERRY, same as i don't need to listen to magik markers when i can well go listen to can't, mars and, yes, royal trux, to give you just three examples.

ok, listen to chuck berry & the stooges then, and let's burn everything else.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

by the way, have i mentioned besides the hypothetical example in this very post, my bands in this thread? that's what i thought.

well, you seem to say people shouldnt have license to do something unless it's KEY, and since you are doing something, i'm simply wondering if you are KEY and original and all that so that you give yourself license to do things.

and yes im being a pain in the ass because while i have no problem with you dislike of this band which i greatly enjoy, i find your invective unwarranted, wrongheaded, spiteful, and masking a fair deal of jealousy, and i'm quixotic like that.