Sonic Youth Gossip - View Single Post

ni'k · 02.15.2010, 09:27 AM

edit.

and then i went on to read the rest of your post, the editoral part... i know its so hard for you trying to keep these things real with all those evil lefties with their books and theory who dont know the ghetto truth like yourself out there with their ideas that they dont force upon you in any way. i know its so terribly desperately hard for you to keep it real with all these ideas floating around that might tempt you into the mental realm of thinking about them and considering them, all i can say is STAY STRONG and continue in your bewilderning ignorance and reactionary anger against some invisible leftist opressor who doesnt know the ghetto truth like yourself because you ACTUALLY TALKED to a person with brown skin and that makes you privy to the authentic semantic truth unlike these ivory tower ALL WHITE leftists. can you not just meet someone and when interacting with them downt bring up identity politics? its not like these guys have brown skin and you have to be able to make some comment about it, and there has to be some word to articulate the massive difference this makes. its not like you cant just have friends, you have to have friends and black friends, but with your black friends you never call them something so insulting as african american, so they can just be black, thus proving how fucking down you are with the REAL people, not those horrible white leftists. it seems like you have just managed to maintain the verbal definitions that create the idea of their even being race thus contributing to the endless perpetuation of this bullshit but managed to do it in such a way that shows how down you are with real black people. you have managed to shift the blame for some problem you seem to have with categorising people based on race onto leftists. congratufuckinglations, you have used racism to be self righteous.

maybe somewhere at the start you were groping towards a point about how identity politics is actually a waste of energy and that the ideas of tolerant society - eg. anti racism anti sexism anti homophobia are really just a way of maintaining an unspoken white male heteronormative reality and letting said people enjoy the narcissitic priveledge of being tolerant in polite society to all these abberations that have to be sealed off in their own categories which we have nothing against and are thus so saintly, obfuscating our dominance and wasting energy in endless and pointless verbal games about how one is supposed to articulate this division. but you quickly fell into an i am down with black people cos i dont call them african americans schtick. nice move trying to blame it all on leftists tho, the people who are generally less inclined to have said racist sympathies and often are even biased on the side of the opressed minorities even if they dont quite realise that this bias can contribute to maintaining the very minority position. do you not think that seeing this as the problem, not say the idea of race itself and those who are prejudiced along these imaginary lines is how you manage to maintain a problem? do you really think that scorn of theory, education and academia engenders anything other than the kind of idiotic self righteous keeping it simple herd mentality that creates and contributes to these problems in the first place? it sounds like you are almost trying to pretend that minorities have more to worry about from people with education, or academic leftists, as opposed to a group of assholes on the street deciding to pick a fight with someone they decided looks queer, or some boss who wont hire someone because theyd rather have paler skin and a set of mannerisms closer to their own behind the counter. its unsurprising that if this crap was going to come from the mouths of anyone it would be a white straight male who has never had to actually face the problems that such conservatism has on peoples lives, and who is trying to act like scorn for thought and theory will engender anything but more of the conservative herd mentality that creates the problems in the first place.

i would imagine it can be condescending to hear people tip toe around you, afraid that they may use an offensive word to describe your skin colour and so ending up sounding patronising, as if there is something inside you that's gonna flip if you hear the wrong word. i'm sure being treated like this can be infuriating. it can feel patronising when people apologise for using the word faggot in front of you aswell, but shit at least they care enough to worry about how they sound. i'd much rather have to deal with someone like this as opposed to some unapologetic homophobe who has an actual hatred and intolerance to queerness. one of them is more likely to be open and not act out there prejudice in their behaviour, rather than just their choice of words, and so one of them is more likely to beat someone up or gossip and make their life hell in school or work or exclude them or generally treat them inferiorily, can you guess which one? i dont advise you to feel such superior scorn to academics, the people that contribute to the humanities by theorising identity and finding ways out of its traps, they have done and will continue to do a lot more good in the world than your dumbass anti intellectualism. noone is being oppressed by theory, except those that refuse to think their way out of it.

altho i can see some merit to what you are saying, if i cut out all the stuff about who and what you blame it on. when i meet someone who when finding out i am queer gets uneasy and makes some sort of a deal out of it it can annoy me because i would have happily continued in my interaction with them without having to deal with their issues, as if i am on call to be the spokesperson for the correct way to behave in front of gay people so as not to offend their delicate sensibilities. these people can often be homophobes who are trying to cover for themselves, as im sure some racists do who use the term african american. but this is more of a minor annoyance than anything else, and it is usually these people in these situations who can be open to hearing what you have to say and having their preconceptions changed.

02.15.2010, 09:27 AM	#2
ni'k invito al cielo Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,360	edit. and then i went on to read the rest of your post, the editoral part... i know its so hard for you trying to keep these things real with all those evil lefties with their books and theory who dont know the ghetto truth like yourself out there with their ideas that they dont force upon you in any way. i know its so terribly desperately hard for you to keep it real with all these ideas floating around that might tempt you into the mental realm of thinking about them and considering them, all i can say is STAY STRONG and continue in your bewilderning ignorance and reactionary anger against some invisible leftist opressor who doesnt know the ghetto truth like yourself because you ACTUALLY TALKED to a person with brown skin and that makes you privy to the authentic semantic truth unlike these ivory tower ALL WHITE leftists. can you not just meet someone and when interacting with them downt bring up identity politics? its not like these guys have brown skin and you have to be able to make some comment about it, and there has to be some word to articulate the massive difference this makes. its not like you cant just have friends, you have to have friends and black friends, but with your black friends you never call them something so insulting as african american, so they can just be black, thus proving how fucking down you are with the REAL people, not those horrible white leftists. it seems like you have just managed to maintain the verbal definitions that create the idea of their even being race thus contributing to the endless perpetuation of this bullshit but managed to do it in such a way that shows how down you are with real black people. you have managed to shift the blame for some problem you seem to have with categorising people based on race onto leftists. congratufuckinglations, you have used racism to be self righteous. maybe somewhere at the start you were groping towards a point about how identity politics is actually a waste of energy and that the ideas of tolerant society - eg. anti racism anti sexism anti homophobia are really just a way of maintaining an unspoken white male heteronormative reality and letting said people enjoy the narcissitic priveledge of being tolerant in polite society to all these abberations that have to be sealed off in their own categories which we have nothing against and are thus so saintly, obfuscating our dominance and wasting energy in endless and pointless verbal games about how one is supposed to articulate this division. but you quickly fell into an i am down with black people cos i dont call them african americans schtick. nice move trying to blame it all on leftists tho, the people who are generally less inclined to have said racist sympathies and often are even biased on the side of the opressed minorities even if they dont quite realise that this bias can contribute to maintaining the very minority position. do you not think that seeing this as the problem, not say the idea of race itself and those who are prejudiced along these imaginary lines is how you manage to maintain a problem? do you really think that scorn of theory, education and academia engenders anything other than the kind of idiotic self righteous keeping it simple herd mentality that creates and contributes to these problems in the first place? it sounds like you are almost trying to pretend that minorities have more to worry about from people with education, or academic leftists, as opposed to a group of assholes on the street deciding to pick a fight with someone they decided looks queer, or some boss who wont hire someone because theyd rather have paler skin and a set of mannerisms closer to their own behind the counter. its unsurprising that if this crap was going to come from the mouths of anyone it would be a white straight male who has never had to actually face the problems that such conservatism has on peoples lives, and who is trying to act like scorn for thought and theory will engender anything but more of the conservative herd mentality that creates the problems in the first place. i would imagine it can be condescending to hear people tip toe around you, afraid that they may use an offensive word to describe your skin colour and so ending up sounding patronising, as if there is something inside you that's gonna flip if you hear the wrong word. i'm sure being treated like this can be infuriating. it can feel patronising when people apologise for using the word faggot in front of you aswell, but shit at least they care enough to worry about how they sound. i'd much rather have to deal with someone like this as opposed to some unapologetic homophobe who has an actual hatred and intolerance to queerness. one of them is more likely to be open and not act out there prejudice in their behaviour, rather than just their choice of words, and so one of them is more likely to beat someone up or gossip and make their life hell in school or work or exclude them or generally treat them inferiorily, can you guess which one? i dont advise you to feel such superior scorn to academics, the people that contribute to the humanities by theorising identity and finding ways out of its traps, they have done and will continue to do a lot more good in the world than your dumbass anti intellectualism. noone is being oppressed by theory, except those that refuse to think their way out of it. altho i can see some merit to what you are saying, if i cut out all the stuff about who and what you blame it on. when i meet someone who when finding out i am queer gets uneasy and makes some sort of a deal out of it it can annoy me because i would have happily continued in my interaction with them without having to deal with their issues, as if i am on call to be the spokesperson for the correct way to behave in front of gay people so as not to offend their delicate sensibilities. these people can often be homophobes who are trying to cover for themselves, as im sure some racists do who use the term african american. but this is more of a minor annoyance than anything else, and it is usually these people in these situations who can be open to hearing what you have to say and having their preconceptions changed.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|