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noumenal · 01.18.2007, 02:59 PM

I have some comments to make on this subject. First of all, my original post was a joke and a bad one, as most of my jokes are, but I did intend for this thread to be for discussion on evolution, even though its been discussed here several times before.

Moving on, this is untrue:

"No one has ever observed the origin of a new species by selection, natural or otherwise. "

Here is a book recommendation:

The Beak of The Finch by Jonathan Weiner

And a link to the wikipedia article on speciation, which glosses over some of the artificial speciation experiements and observations in nature:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation

Check out the external links on that page, there's some interesting stuff.

Really though, its not worth discussing like this. The word that come to mind right now is ludicrous.

Oh, about Darwin and Einstein's religious views. As an atheist, I've always found their comments inspiring, and tend to agree with everything they say. Neither were theists, and Einstein was more or less a Pantheist, which is just a dressed-up atheist. I lean that way. I won't post many Einstein quotes because Atari has probably already posted every Einstein quote in existence at least once, but here are some good ones.

Darwin at the end of The Origin:

"It is interesting to contemplate an entangled bank, clothed with many plants of many kinds, with birds singing on the bushes, with various insects flitting about, and with worms crawling through the damp earth, and to reflect that these elaborately constructed forms, so different from each other, and dependent on each other in so complex a manner, have all been produced by laws acting around us. These laws, taken in the largest sense, being Growth with Reproduction; inheritance which is almost implied by reproduction; Variability from the indirect and direct action of the external conditions of life, and from use and disuse; a Ratio of Increase so high as to lead to a Struggle for Life, and as a consequence to Natural Selection, entailing Divergence of Character and the Extinction of less-improved forms. Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."

Einstein: "I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."

01.18.2007, 02:59 PM	#42
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	I have some comments to make on this subject. First of all, my original post was a joke and a bad one, as most of my jokes are, but I did intend for this thread to be for discussion on evolution, even though its been discussed here several times before. Moving on, this is untrue: "No one has ever observed the origin of a new species by selection, natural or otherwise. " Here is a book recommendation: The Beak of The Finch by Jonathan Weiner And a link to the wikipedia article on speciation, which glosses over some of the artificial speciation experiements and observations in nature: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation Check out the external links on that page, there's some interesting stuff. Really though, its not worth discussing like this. The word that come to mind right now is ludicrous. Oh, about Darwin and Einstein's religious views. As an atheist, I've always found their comments inspiring, and tend to agree with everything they say. Neither were theists, and Einstein was more or less a Pantheist, which is just a dressed-up atheist. I lean that way. I won't post many Einstein quotes because Atari has probably already posted every Einstein quote in existence at least once, but here are some good ones. Darwin at the end of The Origin: "It is interesting to contemplate an entangled bank, clothed with many plants of many kinds, with birds singing on the bushes, with various insects flitting about, and with worms crawling through the damp earth, and to reflect that these elaborately constructed forms, so different from each other, and dependent on each other in so complex a manner, have all been produced by laws acting around us. These laws, taken in the largest sense, being Growth with Reproduction; inheritance which is almost implied by reproduction; Variability from the indirect and direct action of the external conditions of life, and from use and disuse; a Ratio of Increase so high as to lead to a Struggle for Life, and as a consequence to Natural Selection, entailing Divergence of Character and the Extinction of less-improved forms. Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved." Einstein: "I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
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