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-   -   attn musicians, musicologists, people who know music-- help me understand (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=24766)

!@#$%! 08.25.2008 02:59 PM

attn musicians, musicologists, people who know music-- help me understand
 
what exactly did jim o'rourke rip off from pink floyd's great gig in the sky for his through the night softly?

my ears can hear it clearly, but i lack the knowlege/theory to explain.

is it notes? is it what? i lack the language.

--
edit:
http://www.uploading.com/files/NFLZUUFJ/Jim_O'Rourke_-_Eureka_-_04_-_Through_the...mp3.html
i trust everyone knows the pink floyd track?

Rob Instigator 08.25.2008 03:08 PM

the immense overwhelming sense of boring suck?

;)

I have not heard o'rourke's tune.
tyou got a youtube link or something?
let's compare

Cantankerous 08.25.2008 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
what exactly did jim o'rourke rip off from pink floyd's great gig in the sky for his through the night softly?

my ears can hear it clearly, but i lack the knowlege/theory to explain.

is it notes? is it what? i lack the language.

this would be a very good question to ask me

hold on and let me listen to it and i'll tell you

king_buzzo 08.25.2008 03:32 PM

i was going to help you, but then i dont have the jim o rourke song.

!@#$%! 08.25.2008 03:40 PM

sorry it thought this was more common

it's from eureka

here's an upload:
http://www.uploading.com/files/NFLZUUFJ/Jim_O'Rourke_-_Eureka_-_04_-_Through_the...mp3.html

see theres the piano
the saxophone kinda going like the woman
lots of little bits & pieces

but what are the... how should i call this.. musical... qualities or relations that are being mimicked? fuck i need to study music.

Cantankerous 08.25.2008 03:49 PM

something in the chord changes
if you ever watch live at pompeii, or the making of dark side of the moon on classic albums, when rick wright is messing about on the piano working out the chord sequence...yeah.

needless to say the great gig is an infinitely better song.


the sax is reminding you of us and them, not the great gig.

!@#$%! 08.25.2008 03:50 PM

chord changes...

what's a "chord" and how does it "change"?

ha ha ha im so fucking ignorant

i really need to learn this shit

gotta go run some errands

eh cankers i found a painting of you in a gallery yesterday ha ha ha

i'll post later

thanks for the attempt to fit this subject into my ignorant brain

Cantankerous 08.25.2008 03:54 PM

a chord...i'm not a trained musician and i can't explain properly but it's a group of notes played at the same time that sound good together and all the notes you hear at the same time make up what is called a chord.

the chord changes or sequence is how you get from one to another, usually in a scale but sometimes not in which case it will sound more dissonant.

Rob Instigator 08.25.2008 04:02 PM

chords are sets of 3-5 notes that all together resonate in one specific note. (barre chords/power chords, employ just the "bottom" and the "top" notes in a chord, and are very easy to use which is why most punk bands employ just barre chords.)

you can have 5 notes that when played together form a C, or a C# (sharp)

most rock music has three to four chords as the main basis for the song.

let's say a song starts in G, the guitarist strums the G chord 4 times, then he switches to a C chord. your ears can tell the difference, and the "change" is how he gets to that new chord.

real simple songs just go from chord to chord, a la ramones, and the most basic rock songs employ TWO chords only. trhink of some of the more basic misfits tunes.

more complex songs have a "bridge" between chords, a sequence of notes that gets you to the new chord, creating a nice emotional change in the listener. a great bridge can serve as the HOOK in a song or it can lead into the chorus hook.

it sounds more complex than it is, but it is just terminology

help me out people!

Cantankerous 08.25.2008 04:03 PM

it's not complicated at all, i just don't know how to explain it.

Glice 08.25.2008 04:13 PM

Chord - 3+ notes.
Chord change - moving from one set of notes to another.

The notes have different relationships to each other, depending on their frequency. Certain frequencies are considered 'dissonant', others 'consonant'. Some chords have consonant relationships with others; some have dissonant relationships with each other.

Obviously, Wiki will come to the rescue

This Is Not Here 08.25.2008 04:14 PM

Hey musical people, can someone explain to me what exactly an octave is?

Cantankerous 08.25.2008 04:15 PM

does it rly have to be at least 3 notes?

i do this out of laziness:
e|-x
B|-x
G|-x
D|-x
A|-3
E|-1

instead of this:

e|-x
B|-x
G|-x
D|-3
A|-3
E|-1



Quote:

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here
Hey musical people, can someone explain to me what exactly an octave is?

are you serious

Derek 08.25.2008 04:16 PM

Powerchords aren't technically proper chords.

Glice 08.25.2008 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here
Hey musical people, can someone explain to me what exactly an octave is?


Octave - sing Doh reh me fa so la te doh. The two 'doh's have a ratio of 1/2. That's an octave.

Cantankerous 08.25.2008 04:17 PM

fuck technicalities.

i do what i want.

Glice 08.25.2008 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantankerous
does it rly have to be at least 3 notes?

i do this out of laziness:
e|-x
B|-x
G|-x
D|-x
A|-3
E|-1

instead of this:

e|-x
B|-x
G|-x
D|-3
A|-3
E|-1


The first isn't a 'real' chord but can have a chordal/ modal/ melodic relationship to the rest of the song - in that instance, you'd have the major tritone if the bass were playing a B (the seventh note of the scale of F) or the B string was fretted at 2, which is A, the third note necessary for a 5th chord (F5)

The second is not really a chord in and of itself either, as the F on the D string is an octave of the F on the E string (that is, there's two of the same note). This isn't a hard and fast rule, but a generally accepted convention of chord construction.

Rob Instigator 08.25.2008 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek
Powerchords aren't technically proper chords.

no they are not

Glice 08.25.2008 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantankerous
fuck technicalities.

i do what i want.


This is good, and right. Except when people make shit music, which is the majority of people. But not you. So, uh... well done.

Rob Instigator 08.25.2008 04:25 PM

pythagoras, that magical genius of greece, figured out that if you take a lute's string, for instance, and pluck it, and it resonates at a C for instance, if you cut the string in half, it also resonates at a C but at a higher pitch. if you double the length of that string, it is a C but at a lower pitch.

the "octave" is the space betwee those pitches, and is composed of 8 (octo) notes.

do -re-mi-fah-so-lah-ti- and back to DOH

it is a physical result of how nature is constructed, and when pythagoras found this out he went apeshit thinking the entire universe was composed of music, the music of the spheres. it appears to be an underlying order of nature.

a note at 400 hertx doubled, is 800 hertz, and an octave higher. One at 200 hertz is an octave lower.


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