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noumenal 03.24.2006 03:56 PM

Beethoven
 
Discuss.

sellouteater 03.24.2006 04:04 PM

yeah he is cool

noumenal 03.24.2006 04:11 PM

Cool isn't the adjective I would use, but I agree.

sellouteater 03.24.2006 04:23 PM

What adjective would you use? You seem like a very educated deep thinking kind of person.

noumenal 03.24.2006 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sellouteater
You seem like a very educated deep thinking kind of person.


Oh crap, where'd you get that idea?

Anyway, I wouldn't call him 'cool' because I think he was actually sort of an asshole. Of course, maybe you weren't describing him as a person. If you were describing his music, then 'cool' seems like a good word to use. I'm kind of bored right now.

sellouteater 03.24.2006 04:33 PM

Realy, I dont know much about him but in music class I heard some of his music and though it was "cool"

saoq 03.24.2006 04:35 PM

favorites:
Sonata 14 - ''Moonlight'' 1st movement
5th - all parts, esp. 2 and 3
7th - allegretto
string quartet No.15 Cmoll op.131
-his cello-piano works

about the first one, the moonlight sonata. I consider it one of the strongest works of art made, ever. I can't really listen to it often - too intense.
Some say it's inspired by a death of a friend, others by an unshared love.
For me it's a piece about being here, mortal and unable, not unable to do this or that, but unable on the whole, without chances, and still, not falling into dispair. Or better it's about sedately celebrating after having experienced the abyss; yeah there's a sort of calmess here that's not oblivious, but knowing. It stems from where ''and death shall have no dominion'', to say, without any tremor, the opening - and repeated and ending- yes from the last Ulysses chapter.
An struggling affirmation - not a pathetic acceptance - of mortality and finitude (finiteness? anyway i mean Endlichkeit), that's what it is for me.

noumenal 03.24.2006 04:48 PM

saoq

hey, that was very nice, very nicely put.

I agree with all of your choices, of course he didn't write much that was bad.

The Cello Sonatas - I have a recording of Pablo Casals playing them and you can hear him grunting - it's actually kind of nice. Op.69 - the 3rd sonata, is my faveorite, I think. I played that one a few years ago.

Anyway, I think your impression of the Moonlight Sonata is right on. He sort of was on the edge, despairing with his hearing loss....

Marleypumpkin posted the Heiligenstadt Testament not long ago on the old board - that seems to be right at the point when he comes back from the abyss.

Why the German? Are you German, or is Endlichkeit used in English sometimes, like Weltschmertz or Grundgestalt?

saoq 03.24.2006 05:12 PM

I hadn't connected it w/ his hearing loss. interesting.

yeah Op.69 is good; i like how the scherzo sort of sticks out, being in a lighter mood than the other parts. my fav though is the 2nd. I dont know the Heiligenstadt Testament, i'll try to find it. about the german,both english and german arent my mothertongue, i just thought Endlichkeit in german first and i wasn't sure which english word is its translation. I don't know whether it's used in english or not, perhaps in philosophy books, like the words you mentioned or Ersatz, Dasein, Zeitgeist etc.

noumenal 03.24.2006 05:15 PM

I think "finiteness" is probably the best translation. My German isn't that great though. I'm taking a German reading class this summer, so that should help.

Rob Instigator 03.24.2006 05:15 PM

BEETHOVEN

my favorite classical composer.
a masterful genius who took music from the baroque era and singlehandedly brought about the romantic movement in classical/pure music. He dealt with the large, heavy, giant, overwhelming themes of humanity, in a non-religious, praise god jkind of way. his greatest works extoll the inherent beauty of the human condition.
his 9th symphony, judged by many to be the single greatest symphonic work ever, has been adopted worlwide as a symbol of man's rise above opppression, man's rise above ignorance, man's ability to triumph through his own free will. It was played at the berlin wall when it came down. It's last movement, the ODE TO JOY is to me the single most beautiful piece of music. It symbolizes and extolls the purity of human joy. It is a beautiful thing.

I love beethoven's work, ina ll forms. his concerti are pure mastery. his ideas wrecked havok upon the musical world of his time and for all time.

he is one of my heroes, can you tell?

saoq 03.24.2006 05:24 PM

there's this poem I like inspired by Moonlight Sonata (1st movement) by a poet named Yannis Ritsos.
the link has an english translation
http://greece.poetryinternational.org/cwolk/view/21896
a snippet:

(...)
I know that each one of us travels to love alone,
alone to faith and to death.
I know it. I’ve tried it. It doesn’t help.
Let me come with you.
(...)

noumenal 03.24.2006 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
his ideas wrecked havok upon the musical world of his time and for all time.


It would have been awesome to have been around when the Eroica premiered, for me that work and the Op. 59 no.1 SQ really represent him "wreaking havoc"

Hip Priest 03.24.2006 05:29 PM

I like some of his stuff, sure. You've got to appreciate the NInth, even if the European Unuion have hijacked it for their own evil ends.

As a child I heard a lot of stuff, I still quite like the variations on Bei Maennern, welche Liebe fuehlen, but I'm not a huge fan.

I'll stop there.

Love, everyone (esp. noumy).

noumenal 03.24.2006 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hip Priest
Love, everyone (esp. noumy).


Thanks HP. You should start a Janacek thread!

Hip Priest 03.24.2006 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noumenal
Thanks HP. You should start a Janacek thread!


Idea!

Sheriff Rhys Chatham 03.24.2006 07:02 PM

He did cool stuff.
Hes' cool.
I like his music.
But not his voice sections.

AllHandsOnTheBigOne 03.24.2006 07:45 PM

He's probably second to Bach as my favorite classical composer. Probably.


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