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!@#$%! 08.04.2016 07:55 PM

his candicacy is all about ego so hit him where it hurts

what's his tax plan anyway? "i will have the best tax system in the world! the best! let's make america great again!"

hm, yeah, can't argue with such mirages.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.04.2016 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
his candicacy is all about ego so hit him where it hurts

what's his tax plan anyway? "i will have the best tax system in the world! the best! let's make america great again!"

hm, yeah, can't argue with such mirages.


hahahahaaaaaa you NAILED it.. "the best" seems to be Trump's annoying catch phrase

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.04.2016 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
Ohio poll numbers embarrass me.

But three months is a looooong way to go in politics. Particularly this year, not one single person has any idea what lurks around the bend.

BTW, can we please stop all the Trump bashing? I understand disagreeing with his tax policy, but all the name-calling in this thread gets us nowhere. He's a person too, with real emotions. You're causing hurt and not helping America. Dick.

nope. trump is a bigot and a bully and from my experience the only way to deal with bullies is to treat them the way they treat us.

The Soup Nazi 08.04.2016 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
hahahahaaaaaa you NAILED it.. "the best" seems to be Trump's annoying catch phrase


A comment on The Washington Post's site:

Quote:

You know a good way to get drunk? Take a sip every time Trump uses the following descriptors:

Good
Bad
Terrific
Vicious
Tremendous
A disaster

Go!

The Soup Nazi 08.04.2016 08:53 PM

The unbearable stench of Trump's Bullshit
by Fareed Zakaria

Quote:

A few days ago, I was asked on CNN to make sense of one more case in which Donald Trump had said something demonstrably false and then explained it away with a caustic tweet and an indignant interview. I replied that there was a pattern here and a term for a person who did this kind of thing: a "bullshit artist." I got cheers and boos for the comment from partisans on both sides, but I was not using that label casually. Trump is many things, some of them dark and dangerous, but at his core, he is a B.S. artist.

Harry Frankfurt, an eminent moral philosopher and former professor at Princeton, wrote a brilliant essay in 1986 called "On Bullshit." (Frankfurt himself wrote about Trump in this vein, as have Jeet Heer and Eldar Sarajlic.) In the essay, Frankfurt distinguishes crucially between lies and B.S.: "Telling a lie is an act with a sharp focus. It is designed to insert a particular falsehood at a specific point. . . . In order to invent a lie at all, [the teller of a lie] must think he knows what is true."

But someone engaging in B.S., Frankfurt says, "is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all . . . except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with what he says." Frankfurt writes that the B.S.-er's "focus is panoramic rather than particular" and that he has "more spacious opportunities for improvisation, color, and imaginative play. This is less a matter of craft than of art. Hence the familiar notion of the 'bullshit artist.' "

This has been Trump's mode all his life. He boasts — and boasts and boasts — about his business, his buildings, his books, his wives. Much of it is a concoction of hyperbole and falsehoods. And when he's found out, he's like that guy we have all met at a bar who makes wild claims but when confronted with the truth, quickly responds, "I knew that!"

Take, for instance, the most extraordinary example, his non-relationship with Vladimir Putin. In May 2014, addressing the National Press Club, Trump said, "I was in Russia, I was in Moscow recently and I spoke, indirectly and directly, with President Putin, who could not have been nicer." In November 2015, at a Fox Business debate, he said of Putin, "I got to know him very well because we were both on '60 Minutes.' "

Did Trump really believe that you could say something like that on live TV and no one would check? Did he think that no one would notice that the "60 Minutes" show consisted of two separate prerecorded interviews, with Putin in Moscow and Trump in New York? (By that logic, I have gotten to know Franklin Roosevelt very well because I have run some clips of him on my television show.)

In fact, Trump was bullshitting. He sees himself as important, a global celebrity, the kind of man who should or could have met Putin. Why does it matter that they did not actually meet?

Or look at the issue that fueled his political rise, birtherism. Trump said in 2011 that he had sent investigators to Hawaii and that "they cannot believe what they’re finding." For weeks, he continued to imply that there were huge findings to be released. He hinted to George Stephanopoulos, "We're going to see what happens." That was five years ago, in April 2011. Nothing happened.

In fact, it appears highly unlikely that Trump ever sent any investigators to Hawaii. In 2011, Salon asked Trump attorney Michael Cohen for details about the investigators. Cohen said that it was all very secret, naturally. Trump has said the same about his plan to defeat the Islamic State, which he can't reveal. He has boasted that he has a strategy to win solidly Democratic states this fall, but he won't reveal which ones. (Even by Trump's standards, this one is a head-scratcher. Won't we notice when he campaigns in these places? Or will it be so secret that even the voters won't know?) Of course, these are not secret strategies. It's just B.S.

Harry Frankfurt concludes that liars and truth-tellers are both acutely aware of facts and truths. They are just choosing to play on opposite sides of the same game to serve their own ends. The B.S. artist, however, has lost all connection with reality. He pays no attention to the truth. "By virtue of this," Frankfurt writes, "bullshit is a greater enemy of truth than lies are."

We see the consequences. As the crazy talk continues, standard rules of fact, truth and reality have disappeared in this campaign. Donald Trump has piled such vast quantities of his trademark product into the political arena that the stench is now overwhelming and unbearable.

Drjohnrock 08.04.2016 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
nope. trump is a bigot and a bully and from my experience the only way to deal with bullies is to treat them the way they treat us.


Uh, I think evollove was being somewhat facetious there...

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.04.2016 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drjohnrock
Uh, I think evollove was being somewhat facetious there...

i figured but i still promote what i posted

tw2113 08.04.2016 11:00 PM

I'm just sick of seeing and hearing anything about the guy. I don't wish him personal harm, I just wish he'd fade away from media and popular culture.

!@#$%! 08.04.2016 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw2113
I'm just sick of seeing and hearing anything about the guy. I don't wish him personal harm, I just wish he'd fade away from media and popular culture.

me too but it can't be avoided for the next 3 months so the most tolerable option is just to make jokes and laugh about him while he self-destructs

 

 

 

evollove 08.05.2016 11:15 AM

Trump's funny, but he's not. I mean, his candidacy has made it clear to me that there are far more hateful stupid Americans out there than I once thought. More depressing than funny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
the only way to deal with bullies is to treat them the way they treat us.


That's from the Bible, isn't it?

But in all seriousness, I was thinking that if Trump's plane went down, I wouldn't feel much. Yes, the death of this human being would fail to stir my basic impulses. I felt guilty about this, and then I didn't.

EVOLghost 08.05.2016 11:28 AM

If his plane went down, I think I'd just have a great sense of relief.

ilduclo 08.05.2016 02:11 PM

now if Ms Trump went down......

The Soup Nazi 08.05.2016 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo
now if Ms Trump went down......


I'm pretty sure she does; otherwise Donalduce wouldn't have married her.

The Soup Nazi 08.05.2016 09:48 PM

 

!@#$%! 08.07.2016 10:42 PM

i agree with this sucka and i've been saying the same thing for a while without getting paid for it (thanks, internet):

Elitism won’t defeat Trumpism

bla bla bla trump sucks etc bla bla

Nonetheless, there should be no ignoring the real distress Trump voters have experienced . As a practical matter, we will not ease the divisions in our country that his candidacy has underscored if we do not deal with the legitimate grievances of his supporters. As a moral matter, writing off Trump voters as unenlightened and backward-looking is to engage in the very same kind of bigoted behavior that we condemn in other spheres.

bla bla etc

And on the ground, says Rep. Elizabeth Esty (D-Conn.), the sense of “disrespect” felt by “people who have lost work to new machines, technology and, in some cases, globalization” is palpable. This is what links cultural unease to economic anguish. Esty, whose district includes ailing industrial cities such as Waterbury and New Britain, has been warning Democrats for months about Trump’s appeal to displaced workers.

“I do not disrespect the people who support him,” Esty said of Trump. “I find him loathsome, but what he has tapped into is real.”


more:

http://wpo.st/LPyq1

greenlight 08.08.2016 03:49 AM

 


or?

ilduclo 08.08.2016 07:01 AM

“I do not disrespect the people who support him,” Esty said of Trump. “I find him loathsome, but what he has tapped into is real.”

a lot of the trumpies are just resentful of others. There's a big trumper in my burg who used to vote democratic, but was busted in a scheme to steal her employees retirement funds. Now she's butt hurt and wants Don to come in and wreck the place. a lot are whites who think they've had it bad, even though they're not poor.

!@#$%! 08.08.2016 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo
“I do not disrespect the people who support him,” Esty said of Trump. “I find him loathsome, but what he has tapped into is real.”

a lot of the trumpies are just resentful of others. There's a big trumper in my burg who used to vote democratic, but was busted in a scheme to steal her employees retirement funds. Now she's butt hurt and wants Don to come in and wreck the place. a lot are whites who think they've had it bad, even though they're not poor.

context man, context. the quoted person is a congresswoman fom connecticut talking about her constituents. she's not going to call them a bunch of fucktards.

the embezzler of your anecdote isn't a demographic sample. instead just look at trends. the workers who used to work in steel mills, in factories, in shipyards, the workers who built highways and bridges and laid the infrastructure that made the country run, and made wages who could support their families-- where are they now and what are they doing? walmart? mcdonalds? panda express?

trump is of course a fucking conman, but what he has tapped into is real

ilduclo 08.08.2016 08:41 AM

there are plenty of demographic studies of the trumpers that show they're neither poor nor uneducated. They're just assholes

!@#$%! 08.08.2016 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo
there are plenty of demographic studies of the trumpers that show they're neither poor nor uneducated. They're just assholes


show me?

!@#$%! 08.08.2016 09:20 AM

anyway while you find those studies please check this out, makes for a great read:

http://thedemocraticstrategist-round...om/?page_id=60

eta another from the same lot:

http://thedemocraticstrategist-round...m/?page_id=211

ilduclo 08.08.2016 11:31 AM

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...porters-220158

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...upporters.html

neither poor nor uneducated, just assholes

!@#$%! 08.08.2016 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo


the "5 myths" from politico clearly states that blue collar workers are the base of trump's supporters, "but he's also doing very well among college educated republicans."

well, sure, ALSO. but the base is the base, and isn't that what we're talking about here? the cake, not the icing.

the debunking of myths 2 and 3 and 5 actually supports what im saying-- it's not ultraconservatives but angry voters and it's voters who support unions and taxing the rich and they're sticking to their issues.

the real clear politics article is a year old but says that trump's supporters make less than the average republican and come from the less educated end of the spectrum.

so, hm, yes, nowhere does it say that trump voters are "assholes" and it actually points towards massive discontent from blue collar workers that will remain thus even if benito trump's candidacy implodes as it should.

hillary did better among blue collar workers than obama in 2008 and that should probably help bleed him of his base here (there are signs she already is).

but socioeconomic problems are socioeconomic problems regardless of the demagogues who exploit them. and as it shows in the links i provided, at least some democrats are thinking about these things.

midterm elections are proof that democrats can't provide a solid coalition with just minorities, single women, educated whites, and milennials. so yes, we need "the assholes," as you call them.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.08.2016 01:06 PM

hahah so last night i put on FoxNews for shits and giggles.. they spent 15 minutes pontificating about how immoral Hillary is and how unfit for office she is because of her lies...

then they brought on some no name GOP Congressman who proceded spend the next 15 minutes completely and openly lying about the Iran $.. i mean any middle school kid with a newspaper could have corrected all of this guys lies, half truths, and misinformation. hahahaa the irony was palpable!

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.08.2016 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
context man, context. the quoted person is a congresswoman fom connecticut talking about her constituents. she's not going to call them a bunch of fucktards.

the embezzler of your anecdote isn't a demographic sample. instead just look at trends. the workers who used to work in steel mills, in factories, in shipyards, the workers who built highways and bridges and laid the infrastructure that made the country run, and made wages who could support their families-- where are they now and what are they doing? walmart? mcdonalds? panda express?

trump is of course a fucking conman, but what he has tapped into is real


irony is dense here, the traditional party of hard working blue collar factory folks are the pro Union Democrats! i always find it hilarious how this constituency within the Republicans has more or less been voting against their own economic interests since Reagan!

its why i don't believe Trump or any Republican has ever actually tapped into the shifting demographics of the American economy. that is a pretense claimed by the constituents to look less toxic. reality is whether we're talking about Trump, Reagan, or even Pete Wilson we're talking about what Nixon tapped into. racism. bigotry. xenophobia. simple as that. these people have no legitimate grievances which the GOP ever addresses. its just post-modern jingoism.

greenlight 08.08.2016 04:24 PM

 

!@#$%! 08.08.2016 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
irony is dense here, the traditional party of hard working blue collar factory folks are the pro Union Democrats! i always find it hilarious how this constituency within the Republicans has more or less been voting against their own economic interests since Reagan!

its why i don't believe Trump or any Republican has ever actually tapped into the shifting demographics of the American economy. that is a pretense claimed by the constituents to look less toxic. reality is whether we're talking about Trump, Reagan, or even Pete Wilson we're talking about what Nixon tapped into. racism. bigotry. xenophobia. simple as that. these people have no legitimate grievances which the GOP ever addresses. its just post-modern jingoism.

I don't know, I think there's a lot more to it than "race" and such bullshits. I mean that is there of course, I'm not denying it, but it's just not the only thing.

There's this 60s (or early 70s?) movie, "Joe", that kinda epitomizes the working class revulsion and conflict vis a vis the 60s revolution. Check it out some time. It's illuminating at least as a document of its time (though it's fiction).

The thing is though, any group that feels under siege is going to lash out stupidly, and look for scapegoats, and do stupid shit, and get all xenophobic. Just look at the Brexit. Worker's unions have a history at least since the XIX century of embracing their immigrant working brothers during times of expansion and asking to send foreigners packing during times of contraction. So this is not new.

Anyway you might be curious about those papers I like re: democrat strategies to regain the working class (Ruy Teixeira et.al.). One of them mentions the limit of appeals to "race" etc. Which actually I agree with--I identify more with an economic class than with my presumed "ethnicity". And where is that in the Democratic Party? Bernie touched it a bit.

Long story and a tangent for a different thread but think of this as history in the making so I highly recommend looking under the hood of that site.

LifeDistortion 08.08.2016 06:13 PM

Yes, let's deal with current, present economic and employment woes by electing a relic from the 1980's who epitomizes crass wealth and materialism, someone you'd watch a profile of on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

!@#$%! 08.08.2016 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeDistortion
Yes, let's deal with current, present economic and employment woes by electing a relic from the 1980's who epitomizes crass wealth and materialism, someone you'd watch a profile of on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

I don't think anyone here is saying that, are they? Wait-- I think Tesla was, kinda sorta. Curious about what he's thinking now.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.08.2016 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
I don't know, I think there's a lot more to it than "race" and such bullshits. I mean that is there of course, I'm not denying it, but it's just not the only thing.


I don't think its ONLY racism so much as PREDOMINANTLY racism. Further I think that even if subconsciously, racism is an underlying factor to every political decision for Trumpites..

Quote:




The thing is though, any group that feels under siege is going to lash out stupidly, and look for scapegoats, and do stupid shit, and get all xenophobic.
True but why are they under siege exactly and by whom? Hence racism

[quote
Anyway you might be curious about those papers I like re: democrat strategies to regain the working class (Ruy Teixeira et.al.). One of them mentions the limit of appeals to "race" etc. Which actually I agree with--I identify more with an economic class than with my presumed "ethnicity". And where is that in the Democratic Party? Bernie touched it a bit.
[/quote]

Sure but in the American experience socio-economics are fundamentally and integrally connected with race and ethnic identity.

Quote:

Long story and a tangent for a different thread but think of this as history
in the making so I highly recommend looking under the hood of that site.

will do.

Like I said before and have been saying for the past few years, we are witnessing "the Silent Majority 2.0" which is to say racist backlash against uppity "minorities" who refuse to stay in their place and further the growing resent of white folks realizing they are losing their privilege, which is the same whether in 1968 as much as it feels apt for 2016

!@#$%! 08.08.2016 08:55 PM

Nice answer, so, a quick reply to that.

I guess ethnicity might be the strongest force in this country of immigrants, but I think it's used by the elites to divide and conquer the WORKING CLASS.

As long as black, brown, white, yellow and red people are bickering about where their goddamn ancestors came from, and who was here first, and why, and who is better, and bla bla bla, there is no chance that working people can present a united front and say THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.

Personally, maybe because I'm a weirdo, I identify very little with the "Latino" box where the paperwork wants to classify me. I mean yeah I came from Latin America so what. I have many other concerns besides my fucking genetics, which are full global mongrel anyway. Besides, the whole point of culture is that it can transcend genetics-- I can read Chinese poetry without being Chinese, listen to African music without being African, and enjoy Greek myths without having ever set food in Greece, and watch German fussball without thinking that I'm German.

So, yeah, I've had it up to my balls with the race business. Not that it's not a social force regardless of scientific basis, but holy fuck, there's more to life than being a fucking show dog of a certain breed.

Ha ha ha, I got carried away, damn, anyway, rant over.

But yes-- class should matter more than race when it comes to politics except the fucking humans aren't smart enough to realize this shit.

Okay rant really over.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.08.2016 11:09 PM

its not that i disagree with you about vlass divisions, its that we can't in any way separate class from race in America because our economy is so thoroughly racialized at every level.

indeed in all seriousness white peoplecare increasingly resentful because as the economic pie is split more equitably than in previous generations, their class status declines however why was their class above others previously? the racism of the American and indeed global economy.

so again, sure, Trump is tapping in on economic realities, but even these are product of a racist system.

!@#$%! 08.09.2016 01:20 AM

The way I see it is not so much about how the pie is split but rather that the pie is severely shrinking all around. The rich get richer and the middle class is the new proletariat. Where does labor go? Down (& out).

Oh, and to the "why under siege and by whom" question you asked before: technology and globalization. The $45/h + health benefits + pension assembly line job became a $10/h oil changer at JiffyLube. Goodbye workers paradise.

ilduclo 08.09.2016 09:16 AM

it's the richies, for sure. Time for some income "compression" in a downward direction.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.09.2016 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
The way I see it is not so much about how the pie is split but rather that the pie is severely shrinking all around. The rich get richer and the middle class is the new proletariat. Where does labor go? Down (& out).


sure that is part of it, but the pie has still been split more equitably since the 1960s so that in general white people have less and not white people have more than they did but still overall no where near as much as white people.

Quote:


Oh, and to the "why under siege and by whom" question you asked before: technology and globalization. The $45/h + health benefits + pension assembly line job became a $10/h oil changer at JiffyLube. Goodbye workers paradise.
that is part of it. look, i totally get what you are saying. but the reality is we still live in a racialized American economy where opportunity is predominantly defined by race, period.

bringing up the other geopolitical stuff is part of the equation no doubt, but racism remains the driving factor.

trust me, i am letting you in on some white people secrets that they will never say to your face or in your company

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.09.2016 12:40 PM

even the geopolitical economics are racism, the not white peoples of the world are being robbed by Wal-Martization. they are exploited. so racism, even if we are talking about globalization, is STILL a major factor. indeed, do you think that corporations would exploit poor white people the same way they exploit poor not white people all around the world? hardly

greenlight 08.09.2016 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
even the geopolitical economics are racism, the not white peoples of the world are being robbed by Wal-Martization. they are exploited. so racism, even if we are talking about globalization, is STILL a major factor. indeed, do you think that corporations would exploit poor white people the same way they exploit poor not white people all around the world? hardly


so can we say democrats are racists as well (i am not supporting rep.)?

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.09.2016 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenlight
so can we say democrats are racists as well (i am not supporting rep.)?

of course we can and should.

ilduclo 08.09.2016 03:50 PM

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...n-nationalists

ick

The Soup Nazi 08.09.2016 05:59 PM

Donald Trump Suggests Shooting Hillary Clinton, Her Supreme Court Picks, Or Both


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