Sonic Youth Gossip

Sonic Youth Gossip (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/index.php)
-   Non-Sonic Sounds (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   louder's hip-hop café V (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=112934)

noisereductions 03.16.2016 08:05 AM

not really revolutionary. Weezer did that shit w/ Maladroit back in 2001 or whatever. They worked on the album publicly (via their official msg board) and asked for fan feedback every step of the way - revised tracks based on feedback - and THEN guess what they did? They delivered a FINISHED album.

Know what they didn't do? They didn't charge a monthly subscription fee while they were still "tweaking" things.

I know you think it's baffling that some of us don't want to hear (or pay for) an unfinished album. But like I've said in the past, I didn't hear the GOOD Friday demos for MBDTF until that album was already released at retail either.

Severian 03.16.2016 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noisereductions
not really revolutionary. Weezer did that shit w/ Maladroit back in 2001 or whatever. They worked on the album publicly (via their official msg board) and asked for fan feedback every step of the way - revised tracks based on feedback - and THEN guess what they did? They delivered a FINISHED album.

Know what they didn't do? They didn't charge a monthly subscription fee while they were still "tweaking" things.

I know you think it's baffling that some of us don't want to hear (or pay for) an unfinished album. But like I've said in the past, I didn't hear the GOOD Friday demos for MBDTF until that album was already released at retail either.


I think all of this is baffling dude. I'm pissed at Kanye one minute, thinking "what the hell man?", then I listen to the album and I think, "whatever's going on, whatever might or might not happen, this thing is just dope as fuck" ... Then I want to talk to my friends about it. Then I get pissed because nobody (aside from complete strangers on Twitter and tumblr and a few estranged Facebook friends) is talking to me about it!!

So don't mistakenly assume that I'm against you here bro. I'm pretty goddamn bewildered all around.

And I DEFINITELY want the album to be released. Just a few conclusive words from Kanye about what the fuck his actual plans are for this album and future albums would go along way to settling my stomach and calming my nerves.

I've always been a stickler for the official. I don't read fan fiction, I don't download lane ass DJ mixtapes that aren't backed by the artist, I don't have a very big collection of bootlegs anymore and those I do have I keep in a separate area from my catalogued and organized albums. I hate the fact that the next Gane of Thrones season is going to include shit that isn't in the books! Because what the fuck is the point?! I hate it when anime shows (ahem, Bleach) contain entire seasons of "anime only" filler that isn't based on the manga when the author is in between volumes, allowing the storyline to veer off into stupid boring places that the manga' author has nothing to do with. I dont read unauthorized biographies unless there's a widely accepted and damn good reason for doing so that is accepted by the literary community at large (important information that the artist's estate doesn't want to release because it would lead to bad pr)... And I CERTAINLY would never do something like this:

 


(Ugh... right?)

I want the album to just be released – or at least for this what if shit to stop – as much or more than anyone.

Severian 03.16.2016 11:16 AM

This is kinda dope though:

 


Seriously, go to tumblr and just type in the life of Pablo. A lot of people have done a lot of cool things with it. Writing, graphic design, concept art, and a shit ton of "if young metro don't trust you ima shoot" memes, most of which are stupid as hell.

Severian 03.16.2016 11:30 AM

So, even though I love the album as it is, I would really like it if a few things were cut, and a few other small alterations were made. Now. Small alterations are being made, but not where I want them to be made. It's nice to have Vic and Sia back on "Wolves," I guess, but I'd already made my peace with the track version on the album. And he did a disservice to "Famous" by changing one of the lyrics, even if he new one makes more sense contextually, it's less appealing in terms of flow.

I just breezed through a Pitchfork article on this (they have a new website by the way, and it's really awful! Like, totally non-intuitive. Not even in a "more mobile friendly" kind of way.l. But I digress...) and the piece really hit at the heart of the matter. When is an album done? Who gets the say? Is it really best for an artist to have complete control over everything? Once a project is released, what's the real point of changing it? In other words: WHAT THE FUCK AND WHY?

The album got great reviews, which is surprising. Because I think "I love Kanye" has zero business being on there. Same for "facts"... and "Freestyle 4" has its moments but it would be fine as a b-side. I'm definitely ready for the bulkshit to be over, because he's not going to do what he should do (which would be to take the 10 or so fully realized, badass songs on the album, and release them as the album, and cut all the fat away because it prevents the album from being as good as its best moments), and I fear he's just going to continue to add more and more and turn this into something that actually does pose a significant threat to his career after all.

Here's the article:
http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1059-k...oes-it-matter/

noisereductions 03.16.2016 12:34 PM

yeah the new pfork site is just terrible. Not only is the layout crap, but I'm also getting 500 errors and missing content pretty consistently.

louder 03.16.2016 01:18 PM

Honestly the last thing I want Kanye to do is what the fans want from him.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 03.16.2016 04:05 PM

Kanye has just been fucking with you all now, trying to manufacture hype and sex appeal by dragging all this out. Trying to replicate the sincere and spontaenous street buzz that followed leaks in the late 90s and early 2000s..

I may be being hyper critical here, but i more or less agree with noisereductions on this.. just release the fucking album already!

Severian 03.16.2016 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Kanye has just been fucking with you all now, trying to manufacture hype and sex appeal by dragging all this out. Trying to replicate the sincere and spontaenous street buzz that followed leaks in the late 90s and early 2000s..

I may be being hyper critical here, but i more or less agree with noisereductions on this.. just release the fucking album already!


Even I agree with that. RELEASE THE GODDAMN ALBUM! Do what you need to do (which, hopefully, is to remove the goddamn skits and non-songs), but just PUT SOMETHING OUT!

I've got a stack of Kanye CD's and a stack of vinyl, and the CD's are missing nothing! I've even got an import of Late Orchestration now! So fucking LET ME GIVE YOU MONEY FOR YOUR ALBUM!!

Severian 03.16.2016 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louder
Honestly the last thing I want Kanye to do is what the fans want from him.


Then I guess you're on board with pretty much all of this. Which is strange, bevause once you decided you didn't like the album, you kinda turned into a different presence on here. By not doing what you and I want him to do, he's pushed you away more than just about anyone else I can think of. :confused:

Severian 03.16.2016 05:38 PM

This is what I'm going to need to see happen in order for me to be 100% happy with the album:

New tracklist:
Ultralight Beam
Father Stretch my Hands 1, FSMH 2
Famous
Feedback
Highlights (ft. Madonna)
All Day (final Fucking studio version!)
FML
Waves (feat. Chance the Rapper)
Real Friends
NMPILA
Wolves
Fade
30 Hours

(Deluxe edition with Freestyle 4, Young Thug's version of Highlights, Facts EXPLOCITLY labeled as bonus tracks would be tolerable)

No more fucking with it.
Official cd, releases (digital only would be acceptable as long as one could actually purchase it, but CD/LP would be superior and better all around)

Move the fuck on.

Otherwise, I'm gonna have some kind of beef. It will probably be my album of the year no matter what, but I won't call it perfect until it is.

Severian 03.16.2016 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepper_green
let the dude do what he wants. let him flip his little scheme and mind twister on everyone. why are you so obsessed with this Sev?

you want to own an unfinished mediocre record? can't see why you'd be that disippointed.


Are you really asking why I'm so "obsessed" with this?

Maybe I haven't been super clear about this, but I kinda like Kanye West. ;)

Seriously though, I've been waiting for this album for years. I thought it might never happen. I thought about it constantly. If he'd just dropped the album on the 11th (no, wait, the 14th, no wait..) of February, I would have been fine. I love the record. I really do. But the fact that he's drawing this out and making stupid changes and STILL not confronting the only thing j really care about, which is the fact that the album isn't OUT... It just feels like a slap in the face to his most reliable and loyal fans.

Cause that's really what this is about. All I want is new Kanye music. If the album isn't perfect, I'll still be a fan and I'll still love the record. Who is he trying to fuck over here? Because the people who aren't invested in Ye will simply download the album and say fuck it. They won't keep their Tidal subscriptions going, or lose any sleep about basically being made to download the album just so they can listen to it with freedom. He's only going to let down the people who love his music most.

But again I'm all over the place on this. Ask me again tomorrow ;)

Severian 03.17.2016 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepper_green
well, TLOP is not worth owning. Kanye has backed himself into a corner and doesn't know how to escape. it might have critical acclaim but he's having serious doubts and making you pay for it. fuck that!

he said it himself, he doesn't trust the white media reviewing his albums so what do they know? that tells me he thinks they're wrong.


Totally worth owning to me. Not sure what your deal is if you can't get behind ULB and Real Friends and Famous and blah blah blah. Great fucking songs.

And Kanye's comment about the "white" media actually pissed me off. As though there are only white writers at Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, Spin and the fucking New York Times. That was a stupid thing to say.

louder 03.17.2016 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Severian
Then I guess you're on board with pretty much all of this. Which is strange, bevause once you decided you didn't like the album, you kinda turned into a different presence on here. By not doing what you and I want him to do, he's pushed you away more than just about anyone else I can think of. :confused:

No I think he's trying to satisfy the masses, the younger generation of hip hop listeners in particular with this album. Even if I didn't love Yeezus I would still respect it. But let me shut up.

louder 03.17.2016 12:48 AM

Kendrick battling british kids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM550Jks57g

This just made my day. :)

Severian 03.17.2016 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louder
No I think he's trying to satisfy the masses, the younger generation of hip hop listeners in particular with this album. Even if I didn't love Yeezus I would still respect it. But let me shut up.


Well, first off I don't want you to shut up, I very much want you to say MORE about all of this. (Unless it's just, y'know, "TLOP is so bad" over and over again, which wouldn't help my morale much at the moment, and which I kinda don't entirely believe since I know damn well how many of the songs you like ;) ) but I definitely want to hear more from you.

Second, what do you mean "even if (you) didn't love Yeezus..." ?? I'm confused. Shouldn't this be, like, "even if I did like TLOP" or something? Who's talking about Yeezus?

(Side note: Yeezus is so great! Woke up with the line "Come on homie what happen'? You niggas ain't breathing you gaspin'!" just running through my head... What a great line. What a great song. What a great album. :) )

Finally, I don't think he's trying to appeal to anyone here. I don't think there's any substantial contingent of the hip-hop community who exclusively listens to music through Tidal. In fact, there are only about 3 million subscribers!!! Yeah, that's way up from the number of subscribers pre-TLOP (1 mill) but I don't think anyone anywhere is thinking "yes, this is exactly how I wanted this album to be released! Perfect!" unless it's fucking Dr. Doom or Lex Luthor or The Brain or someone else hell bent on destruction and chaos.

But I maintain that several of the album's songs are top self Kanye. Like, the best all around songs he's dropped since MBDTF. Those are Real Friends and No More Parties in LA and FML and Ultralight Beam. "Famous" is excellent but I can understand how it might be kind of hard to love a song like "Famous" .... (See what I did there?) for folks who don't like the album as a whole.

Rob Instigator 03.17.2016 09:34 AM

"happened" and "gasping" do not rhyme

Severian 03.17.2016 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
"happened" and "gasping" do not rhyme


True. But it's rap, and it's Kanye, so it's really "what happen?" / "you gaspin'"

A half rhyme all the same, but having listened to hip-hop since 1993, and in recent years often doing so exclusively, I can tell you with confidence that there are more half and quarter rhymes than "true" rhymes. It's not a Kanye thing, and it's not a lyricism issue. It's a byproduct of the phonetic nature of the genre. Timbre, pronunciation, regional accent embellishments and general syllabic fucking around are part of what make rap what it is.

Besides, quarter and half rhymes weren't invented by Brooklyn emcees. Syllabic and phonetic abstraction and experimentation have been part of the lyrical and poetic traditions for centuries.

Love you Rob, but your point is about as useful in this context as a lecture to Thurston and Lee about how to "properly" play chords would have been in 1985.

Severian 03.17.2016 10:19 AM

If you were to tell Bob Dylan that "medicine" and "government" didn't rhyme, do you think he'd do anything other than stare at you blankly as though you were the world's biggest idiot?

I'm not saying you are an idiot.
Not at all. Far from it, in fact. But ... come on, man.

louder 03.17.2016 10:24 AM

Sorry Sev, but I'm really tired of talking about TLOP at this point and feel like it brings up nothing but negative vibes from my part. I'll just say the FML outro is incredible and Turbo Grafx 16 ("on some super nerd vibes," said Kanye) sounds very intriguing so now I'm looking forward to that instead.

noisereductions 03.17.2016 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Severian
If you were to tell Bob Dylan that "medicine" and "government" didn't rhyme, do you think he'd do anything other than stare at you blankly as though you were the world's biggest idiot?

I'm not saying you are an idiot.
Not at all. Far from it, in fact. But ... come on, man.


yo even Emily Dickenson was up on slant rhymes.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All content ©2006 Sonic Youth