reassessing nyc ghosts and flowers
 

Because A Thousand Leaves shows signs of a 'new' SY starting to emerge, what about its follow up? Another album of theirs that I rarely listen to these days. So, again, here goes.

1. Free City Rhymes. A quiet opener with some really nice vox from Thurston. Great subtle twin guitar action. One of my fave SY songs, even though it's one of their more understated ones. Lisyening closely, there's a sense of really early stuff like Halloween and Shaking Hell in some of the guitars. A great opener.

2. Renegade Princess. Laid back opening soon cranks up to a nice chugging rocker with some pretty cliched lyrics. Great drumming from Steve and a real nice guitar sound running through it that sort of remind me a bit of what Thurston had done earlier as part of Dim Stars. The ambient/noise breakdown at the end is OK if a bit unnecessary. It's almost as though they feel like they have to do it these days.

3. Nevermind. Typical nursey rhyme feel to this one from KG. Not nearly as annoying though as some of her other playground-pop excursions. And this does have that great riff that comes in for the chorus, of course.

4. Small Flowers Crack Concrete. Thurston is no poet, but this is OK. Nice guitars that sort of rumble along underneath until they slowly build and eventually take over.

5. Side2side. This starts out brilliantly. A kind of KG mantra spoken over simple Krautrock-like guitar and percussion that all build slowly to a sudden stop. An excellent track that I'd largely forgotten about.

6. Steamxsonik Subway. This is another one of their songs that I can't work out whether I like or not. Great music, annoying vox.

7. NYC Ghosts and Flowers. Beat poetry from Lee that is OK until he tries to put some melody in his voice. Again, musically there's a sense of an earlier, darker SY youth here, similar at times to something like Halloween. Would've been an incredible instrumental.

8. Lightnin. A nice semi-free-form closer that really reminds me of Satan is Boring.

A great album on the whole, with no real low spots. It doesn't have a 'Hits of Sunshine' or even a 'Karen Koltrane', but the downbeat, nocturnal feel that runs through it make this a far more consistent album than ATL.

I love this album sooooooooooooooooooo much. Nice reading your comments.

This is an awful effort by Thurston, lyrically. His worst... well, besides the great title.

I love that song, But I think the best song is the Nyc Ghost and Flowers.

This is their darkest album. I think this is probably the darkest period in the band, they were perhaps creatively bankrupt (which might explain why O'Rourke became a member after this) and this was right after their gear got stolen.. I sense a lot of tension in the band, judging from the songs... also, the song titles and lyrics and overall message seem far different from anything SY had attempted before or after this.. truely, a radical album (and a 0.0 from pitchforkmedia).

That being said, the song "NYC Ghosts and Flowers" was a song I never paid much attention to until it won the "best Sonic Youth song ever" tournament at the old board ("STEREO SANCTITY" SHOULD HAVE WON!!!!!!!!!!)... then, I listened more closely and realized that it is, indeed, in the top 3 best Sonic Youth songs. Everything about it perfectly captures what makes Sonic Youth so equally beautiful, catchy, mysterious, tuneful, tuneless, and impossibly driven.

The lack of distortion and effects (I know there are effects, but they're subtle and seem to have more to do with the mixing of the record than an obvious flanger or wah-wah or something) seem to make this album sound a bit more "classical" than their other stuff (in other words, the effects don't modernize the recording and instead give it the effect of an old Beatles record or something).. the "clean" approach has been used by many bands who usually rely on distortion, least successfully being the Melvins (sorry)... but Sonic Youth succeed, and it gives the album an extremely EXTREMELY creepy feeling.. the fact that you can hear every note perfectly now also brings to mind Captain Beefheart.. it's not music made for effects boxes, it's just bizarre tunings, chordings, and notes. Nice. It's also some of the old clean stuff they've done since the self-titled album. I think the "Cleanness" of this album is a very overlooked part of it.. it and a few other things (lyrically, structurally) seem to completely erase what Sonic Youth had done before. It was almost like the "clean" guitars represented some kind of "cleansing" for the band (and the title track is the ultimate demon cleaner in a way, completing destroying the fabric of time).

The production is immaculate, of course, and the poetry is.. interesting. Not sure if Kim's lyrics are all that hot (okay, they suck), but her vocals are a bit more subdued usually. "Free City Rhymes" is probably the best SY opener ever.. that was the first SY song I played for my best friend Booe (who typically only enjoys classical music) and he said, "Everything they're playing is perfect." He's right.

There seems to be a lot more improvisation on this album than before, which is nice, though it may bog down the album a bit considering the unbelievably short running length (this is their shortest album since Sister, I believe). Still, the album is full of good ideas and good songs, even if a few are half-written.

Listening back to the album now, I actually realized something I never thought of before (another reason to love these threads)... this album is totally how Slint would sound if they lived in New York City...

Also, listening now, I am trying to imagine these songs as played on piano. I bet they would sound amazing.

..Anyway.. the spoken word vocals are nice, though a bit much at times, and I think Lee's vocal is the best on the album, as usual (when he breaks from his spoken word into singing, it's amazing) -- though a few lines stick out as kind of ugly. "Hey any of you freaks here ever remember Lenny?" Hmm.

An uncharacteristically dark album from SY, especially since the one after this one is one of the brightest things they've done. Still, I wouldn't have minded a few more albums similiar to Ghosts and Flowers. It's very concise and straightforward and too short to get boring, and there are moments of unbelievability musicality. In the big picture, not at all one of the best SY albums, but probably their weirdest and darkest. Thumbs up.

I do agree it is a very dark album. I got a sense of that when I first listened to it.

Re-reading what I wrote, I'm not even going to bother editing "unbelievability musicality".

The most underated album by critics, seems to be one of their best. My favorite all-time album. (yes, better than DDN or Beatles).

awesome album, i'm really at a loss as to why a lot of people dislike it, or at least disliked it when it came out. if you dislike this record you're a sucker.

this is my next sy purchase for sure.

i have tons of bootlegs from this era and i have to say those songs really stand out.

It's a dark album--no question about it; but nowhere near as dark as Confusion Is Sex, which has long been my contender for "darkest album of all time", outcreeping even the works of Black Sabbath, The Pink Floyd and Joy Division.

I think it gets darker as it builds but Free City Rhymes is a really beautiful and gentle opening song, it has a very "morning" feel to it. At the time of buying the album i didnt think much of it but i get alot out of it now when i put it on.

hmm, yeah, confusion is pretty dark, but the darkness seems more apocalyptic in tone ("confusion is next"), whereas the darkness here seems more.. i dunno.. depressing.. like you're alone at 3 am and there's no one on the phone.. hmm..

Seeing/listening NYC G&F played as an encore in the "goodbye 20th century tour" is probably my best live-music related experience to date

I llve this album madly.
I think the lyrics are great (I'm certain steamxsonik subway is absolutely meant to be a hilarious psychadelic sci-fi funk out), side 2 side is beautiful you looneys!
I think atsonicpark is bang on the money in sussing out that what freaks veryone out about it is the lack of distortion and the poise behind every note. reminds me of having a coffee first thing in the morning sat on my bed looking out the window at the station over the road and watching the commuters and the joggers in the park beyond.

I absolutely adore this record to the extent that I used to scribble its title everywhere, and I've posted one such scribble on the SY fan art section. It was so strange when it came out, because it's the only record that they made in the 90's that I wasn't aware was coming out at all, considering that by then I was obsessed (and to an extent I still am) with them. Up to Sonic Nurse, which let me down quite a bit, they were one of those bands that would make you feel like you were having a lot of fun on a rollercoaster. When I've listened to Rather Ripped for the first time, I felt like a kid that had his toys snatched off him abruptly by a pedo.

Very underrated. I'd reccomend any casual fan to buy it just for Free City Rhymes though.

Personally i find Kim's voice in Nevermind (What Was It Anyway?) to be incredibly seductive and sexy.

If there is one SY album that I need to reassess more, than it would have to be this one. I first heard it after listening to Sonic's less abstract stuff and was entirely put off. But now that I thoroughly enjoy Confusion Is Sex, Kill Yr Idols, etc, I feel as though I now have the right context in which I can approach it. Too bad I don't have the album.

Hahaha. It was my fave from the beginning.

Ironically enough...or un ironically...the total album time is palindromic...

42:24

What?! Holy shit! God dammit!

I love this album, really textural and beautiful... though it has it's faults (I blame Kim... Lightnin' and Side2side are pretty cheeseball... words+lyricswise, that is.
And Renegade Princess has some annoying lyrics. But still an wicked song.
The title track is easily one of the best songs ever written, by any band, and by SY too. Holy cow! That is all I can even say, anything else would not even begin to describe it..

Yeh, most of the slip-ups can be blamed on lyrics and vocals trying too hard to be... poetic... but all the music just totally negates anything bad in the words.

Hell yeah!
I'll took the chance to ask fellow boarders/tapers/traders and stuff:

This is the concert I'm talking about, does anyone have it/know if there are recordings floating around?

Date: Sunday, June 17th, 2001
City: Bologna, Italy
Venue: Parco Nord
SET LIST NOTES

Having Never Written a Note for Percussion
Voice Piece for Soprano (pt 1 - Against the Wind)
Six
Voice Piece for Soprano (pt 2 - Against the Wall)
Burdocks
Voice Piece for Soprano (pt 3 - Against the Sky)
Treatise
Clapping Music
Four6
She Is Not Alone
Side2Side
--
NYC Ghosts & Flowers

Dean Roberts participated in "Treatise" and "Four6". OTHER PERFORMERS

unknown... DOCUMENTATION

No known sources. Have any information on this show? E-mail me!

Christ, nicfit! Lucky bastard!!! She Is Not Alone?!?!?!?! What the crap?! Where did that even come from?!

Hey, if we;re asking around for shows... anyone got the Toronto show from 2006 hehehe?

Actually I think they played those songs on a pretty regular basis as encores for the "goodbye" tour... gotta check Chris' site to make sure...

Yeh, I just checked it out... lots around then.

I'd love to hear some recordings of that era... Goodbye 20th Century is one of myt favourites.

this is my second favorite of theirs (to confusion).
just fucking amazing all the way through.
they have to bring these songs back live, they just got to.
Sonic youth at their best: pushing the boundaries of music.

This to me is the litmus test of a Sonic Youth fan. If they tell me that "Sonic Youth hasn't done anything good since the '80s" I used to ask if they'd heard Washing Machine, but now I ask if they've heard this record. It somehow just makes it better that the fuckwads at pitchfork didn't get it at all. Too bad it is also their worst selling major label album, but I guess that goes with the territory.

The title track is indeed the best Lee song ever and one of the band's definitive statements. "Nevermind" sums up the whole grunge thing lyrically without paying homage musically, which is really effective, right down to the Green River quote at the end. "Free City Rhymes" is really pretty for all it's sadness. "Small Flowers Crack Concrete" is indeed the sappiest thing Thurston's ever written, but still a good song through it - kind of like "Paper Cup Exit" is good despite the Lee beat-cheese. I do wish they'd both get over the Ginsburg infatuation, at least when they're writing lyrics, but in the end it's still only rock 'n roll, so who cares.

What stands out for me on this record, that I think really points to the O'Rourke production influence (as well as having to use new instruments after the theft, but still more the former) is how experimental it is in terms of Sonic Youth structures. Thurston talks more than singing "Psychic Hearts" type songs. He and Kim share vocals on "Renegade Princess" in an arrangement that is nothing like the other rare instances they've done that. While Thurston has gone all beat-poet wanna-be, the resident Dead-head pulls off the most epic drone-song he's ever done and doesn't once in it tell us to look up at the trees or the endless highway (or if he does it works so well, it's not noticeable, which is a real accomplishment!)

I have some recordings from SYR4, but not in very good shape (mp3, incomplete, etc.) Maybe some of our dearest tapers/bootlegers will share some lossless, more complete versions. If not, i will upload for you some stuff i have.

For nicfit: Sorry, but i don't the show you've indicated.

NYC Ghosts & Flowers, my inescapable favorite. I was wondering when I'd have the chance to tickle this one to climax. I call it "ear-scouring dungeon emanations"; it's also an album in black-and-white, if such a thing exists. They were revisiting a medium that they'd left behind in the 80's.

It's the most upfront of all their albums in terms of its references. Goo, by contrast, seems to swirl a whole smorgasbord of American pop culture into its grooves, while this unwaveringly explores the mythic city and certain elements of its underground cultures (the "fucked up in Cleveland" lyric notwithstanding). The beatniks get the most explicit attention, but when listening to Renegade Princess and Free City Rhymes I feel like SY is imaginatively recreating the birth of punk-rock and hip hop. Renegade, for example, is like some tripped-out re-scoring of the video for Micheal Jackson's "Beat It", with the long coda that lasts the whole second half of the song coming off like a slow-motion replay of a Brooklyn up-rock (in black-and-white anime).

It's so spoon-bendingly dense that it defiied my attempts at analysis at first. I didn't dig the whole thing like I do now, I was mainly obsessed with Free City Rhymes and NYC G&F. But one night I was driving around Orange, CA all high and shit with this album cranked, and Side2Side came on. Its myriad layers, the simultaneity of its fragmentation and cohesiveness, the sheer not-giving-a-fuck about it, totally won me over.

My one complaint is not about the album, but the prospects of ever hearing this stuff live. I've been to three SY shows and it doesn't feel like there's ever going to be an NYC G&F Redux, although that would be a cream-dream. We should all demand it, complete with instrumental versions of everything (or else)! Listen to this one all the way through and its initial dreariness will give way to a desolate bliss. If you can truly rock to StreamXSonic Subway you'll know you're there.

you know what rules about this album? the production.

probably my favourite or up there with a few others as my fave. small flaowers crack concrete an amazing song, one of the best on the album and title track is fantastic. never understood why people have a problem with this album at all but each to their own i guess. lightning is also fantastic and its a much more interesting sounding youth than other albums, especially the last two. i like the way it was the one they did right after their equipment got stolen so has a newer sound to me. i cant imagine it sounding the way it does if that had not happened. i loved this record from the start.

AMAZING

when I first got it, I thought it was f'ing awesome. Now I think it's f'ing awesome.

what's the story with this picture?

Don't you recognize the guy (it's a screencap from a tv thing)?

Good. Very good. :)

hahaha OMG is that Dawson?

Holy shiz, wait! I HAVE that episode! That's the one where Dawson tries to impress Paycee's foxy sister, Gretchen!

YES!
Season 4 ep 2, I have no idea about the plot or anything, I just googled a bit to find which episode it was to dl it and check if I was going mad.
There are reruns on italian tv, right after futurama, I keep the tv turned on while I work on the pc and I laugh at the dialogues, but I turned my head and saw that frame and thought there must be a NYC G&F conspiration going on for me lately (and I'm glad! but it's a bit an obsession this week buagghhh!!).
I wonder what's written on that red-fonts sticker...

Nic, that sticker is a standard THIS CD IS FOR PROMOTIONAL PURPOSES BLAH BLAH BLAH sticker