it involved the smell of lavender. I'll say that.

Anyway, according to Scaruffi.com, these are the ten best:

1. Gun Club: Fire of Love (1981)
2. Husker Du: Zen Arcade (1984)
3. Minutemen: Double Nickels On The Dime (1984)
4. Ramones: Rocket To Russia (1977)
5. Butthole Surfers: Psychic Powerless (1985)
6. Clash (1977)
7. Henry Rollins: Hot Animal Machine (1987)
8. Fugazi: Repeater (1990)
9. Dead Kennedys: Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables (1980)
10. X: LA (1980)

Fire of Love is, apparantly, the greatest punk album ever. And there was me worrying about Appetite for Destruction.

I'd put in the first Crass LP ("Feeding Of The 5000"), the first Banshees LP ("The Scream"), and as a very distant cousin who deserves to be in for sheer energy, the first Motorhead LP.

By way of contrast, someone-or-other thought these were the 10 most over-rated punk albums:

10. Social Distortion - s/t
9. Black Flag - Damaged
8. Mighty Mighty Bosstone - Question the answers
7. Descendants - Milo goes to college
6. Dead Kennedys - Frankenchrist
5. Rancid - and out come the wolves
4. The Clash - London Calling
3. Ramones - Mania
2. NOFX - Punk in Drublic
1. The Sex Pistols - Nevermind the bollocks...

I find it hard to believe that anyone rates the Mighty Mighty Bosstones, but I can't argue with 9, 5, 4 and 2.

Of those, I've only actually heard 9, 7, 6, 4, 3 and 1.

Are they overrated? Probably by some people. I've definitely never got the whole Dead Kennedys thing, and who seriously rates Mania anyway? NMtB is overrated by some (me probably) and underrated by others.

The fact that no list so far has mentioned The Heartbreakers' L.A.M.F is just flat out wrong in my opinion. For me it's as good, if not better, than the first Ramones album. No NY Dolls, either. Clearly no Thunders love out there. The world is an ass.

Someone on another thread mentioned not being able to get X. I can't recall who it was, but totally. They make a lot of lists despite being, well, I dunno, just nothing really. I mean can anyone tell me what it is I'm missing when it comes to Los Angeles, because whatever it is, I just don't hear it.

Jesus, Rancid are about as punk as The Offspring. As for the Descendants, I've never been a big fan of theirs, but you can't deny that several hundred bands have ripped off their formula to the nth degree (see: Green Day, Foo Fighters, etc).

For me, I'd put the first Clash album as being THE most over-rated punk album ever. A tinny productions disguiseth not a lack of decent tunes.

The NY Dolls/J Thunders axis are definitely punk in the true sense of the word (see also Lester Bangs on this point), but I think the Dolls were too much into a rockin', hip-thrustin' sexual groove to be what is considered punk now.

normally i agree with your taste in women, but never in my right mind would i give it to vorderman.

Anyway, if I have ten, these are pretty much it:

The Heartbreaker' L.A.M.F.
The Ramones' S/T
The Dead Boys' Young, Loud and Snotty
The New York Dolls' S/T
The Sex Pistols' NMtB
Suicide's S/T
Iggy and The Stooges' Raw Power
Patti Smith's Horses
Bruce Springsteen's Darkness at the Edge of Town
The Cramps' Songs the Lord Taught Us

Who mentioned anything about 'right mind'?

the clash's first album is by far their best, some memorable songs in there.

the most overrated punk album is nevermind the bollocks, sure it has some good songs and made an impact but it's not like it's the book of revelations and the one lives and dies for.

When it comes to something like Lookin for a Kiss, I reluctantly agree, but Jet Boy? Jesus, that's as punk as a shower-block full of arse ripped convicts.

Re. Ramones Mania - Christ, I forgot how much turgid filler there is on that. It almost put me off buying the first Ramones LP full stop. I really never want to hear Dee Dee Ramones' "singing" ever again.

Discharge should certainly be in any Top Ten of punk -the infamous "D-beat" and wall of guitar sludge racket has inspired countless bands, and they were the first UK band to play at near-hardcore tempos.

Am listening to it now - a great razor-sharp riff in the verse that is pure punk rock, but harmonies in the chorus? Still, if you could melt down punk attitude and feeling to it's pure essence, "Jet Boy" would pretty much be it.

I half agree, but equally feel that some people write it off a bit too easily. Not suggesting that's what you're doing, but I hear it a lot from people. It's not the greatest album out there, I'll admit that much, but it's pretty fucking spectacular, nonetheless. It's got 'Bodies' on it, as well as 'Holiday in the Sun' (the final minute of which is just nuts). Thinking about it, it really doesn't have a bad song on it.

discharge - never again
damned - machine gun etiquette
the heartbreakers - LAMF
patti smith - radio ethiopia
ramones - ramones
the ruts - the crack
television - marquee moon (which is only counted as punk for being part of the CBGB scene anyway but there you have it)

there's 7.

drail6x3, I like the New York Dolls, they are just not top 10 for me...
but hey, I'm someone that likes Sonic Youth and Talking Heads more than any "proper" punk band, and I award that highest spot to the Sex Pistols which some here seem to love to hate. I also rated bands that are really more or less rock bands like The Stooges and Patti Smith Group higher than strictly punk bands.

Like many seem to be expressing, my hat is off to the punk pioneers, but as far as favorites go, I've sort of outgrown wearing leather, tattered denim, and safety pins. I don't have any piercings or tattoos either. Oh, I suppose I'm on the cusp of the metal thing now, oops.

Yeah, I mean, by the criteria laid down by a lot of people, it'd be hard to even make a case for the Heartbreakers, let alone the Dolls, being 'punk' bands at all. Christ, are even the Pistols considered punk by someone who listens to stuff like Minor Threat, or Black Flag?

it drags a bit towards the last half.

The last half of which consists of, God Save the Queen, Seventeen, Anarchy ..., Submission, Pretty Vacant, New York and EMI. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Have fun, but don't take too long in there.