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-   -   For old times sake. (drunken tub photos not included). (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=42203)

ann ashtray 11.11.2010 06:31 PM

For old times sake. (drunken tub photos not included).
 
Once upon a time, I had more free time. Much of this was spent exploring/researching/listening to music. As I get older, as I take work and girlfriends more seriously, this extra time-on-hand evaporates, slowly, into the ever growing cosmos. SO, what does a boy do????? He spends what little extra time there may be devoting himself to one source (occasionally drifting into others) of music. One genre which includes not only what he plays in his free time, but what he listens to/reads about/watches. Lately, it's been blues. An "off and on" interest over the last few years, but it's where I'm at now regardless. It's been said.

Now, as of this minute, I'm listening to Acid Mothers Temple. The best...no....the "absolute" best compliment I can give to this music is that in all sincerity, I think it would have made Jimi, and probably would make, the likes of Buddy Guy + Muddy Waters proud. It's evolution at it's finest. You can tell what was being listened to, but likewise, you can tell the idea of "pushing forward", is there. Probably the front-gard of blues as of the time of this status update.

Blues? HUH!?!?! To me, the first form of music to where the LYRICS were just as important, self expression,was just as important, as technical ability. If ya mean it, then "dirty/trashed/sloppiness" is OK. For christ's sake, Junior Kimbrough (and really..,Jimi, "proto-noise rock" if there was ever such a thing) would understand alllll too well. AMT are really, and have been really, pushing that to another level. The fans of avant/garage, what-the fuck-evers can get it even if unaware of this VERY deep history of this music.

Blues talks, period. The ONLY form of music in which the basic scale can be utlilized in such a fashion to mimic the human voice.

Ron asheton got it.
Jimi got it.
Keith Richards got it.

The Beatles got it, but not until later into their career as far as my ears can tell.

Really, case in point, blues it he spine of American music. It's been used as a tool on ones palate for decades now, and it ain't going no where. ANY artist worth a damn over the past 50 years understands, including, but not limited to...

Elvis (by his own account, his interest began by listening to BLACK blues performers while hiding under front porches/etc)
Stooges
Stones
White Stripes (to be more precise, Jack White)
Jimi (a blues artists that announced his presence during he absolute height of rock n roll)
Acid Mother's Temple
Nirvana
Screaming Trees
Allman Brothers
Sex Pistols (yes, they were VERY routed in blues)
The Cramps
Earth
,,,,I'll stop, but only because it's endless.....

"johnny Winter no show" :)


love.



-s.

floatingslowly 11.11.2010 06:37 PM

man, that's a cool truck.

ni'k 11.11.2010 06:37 PM

once upon a time i gave a fuck.

then i slapped myself in the face and had a cold shower to remedy this disaster

,,,,I'll stop, but only because that's what you should have done before making this post....

love.

fu.

Genteel Death 11.11.2010 06:41 PM

 

keep poppin pimples 11.11.2010 06:45 PM

what a load of crap, lyrics were always important, this evidenced by the fact that people wrote them. do you think the lyrics in operas were not important? how would anyone get the story then...


technical ability....jesus, people spent centuries or millenia sucking ass technically. the modern instruments are much easier to be consistent in.


the only form of music where the scale mimics the human voice, aside from every form of music.


honestly if you think music was invented in the united states and didn't exist before the invention of recording technology this makes sense.


the good thing about blues is that it's good, good enough that it doesn't need made up and ridiculous statements to justify it

ni'k 11.11.2010 06:50 PM

man, did you actually read it?

seriously, its sway. you just skip his posts.

that's how it works.

Genteel Death 11.11.2010 06:51 PM

 

ni'k 11.11.2010 07:01 PM

must spread repmos

Genteel Death 11.11.2010 07:02 PM

 

ann ashtray 11.11.2010 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keep poppin pimples
what a load of crap, lyrics were always important, this evidenced by the fact that people wrote them. do you think the lyrics in operas were not important? how would anyone get the story then...


technical ability....jesus, people spent centuries or millenia sucking ass technically. the modern instruments are much easier to be consistent in.


the only form of music where the scale mimics the human voice, aside from every form of music.


honestly if you think music was invented in the united states and didn't exist before the invention of recording technology this makes sense.


the good thing about blues is that it's good, good enough that it doesn't need made up and ridiculous statements to justify it


They WERE important, yes. BUT>..they were designed to reach a mass audience. Original blues wasn't designed to reach anyone but yr next door neighbors. Of course, approaching the mid 1930's it had become "pop-music" (for blacks and the weirdo whites that considered it to be "avant garde", which in some way it was).

Let's not forget, the Stones visited Chicago only to discover their "hero" Muddy Waters painting the inside of a recording studio in order to make ends meet. Those folks were not playing because financial security was a guarantee. A "hope" at best.

Opera REQUIRED talent, blues required honesty. There is a difference. Holy shit, some of them early blues singers didn't have the most beautiful voices....but the lyrics, matched w/ at least minimal skill on whatever given instrument, went a long way. Blues has been, time and time again, ripped off...honestly, how many people you know listen to opera AND CONSIDER IT TO BE AN INSPIRATION? On the other hand, how many people you know listen to some variation of rock n roll (a DIRECT descendant of the blues)...?????

ann ashtray 11.11.2010 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ni'k
man, did you actually read it?

seriously, its sway. you just skip his posts.

that's how it works.


Come on, I could have just posted SOMEONE ELSE'S manifesto.

Gimmie a break.

ni'k 11.11.2010 07:11 PM

 

ann ashtray 11.11.2010 07:13 PM

Clearly, you have nothing worth while to offer. I can appreciate that.

ni'k 11.11.2010 07:13 PM

 

Genteel Death 11.11.2010 07:13 PM

 

ann ashtray 11.11.2010 07:16 PM

This is why I don't post here as often as I used to, some idiot homosexuals (I changed the word as to not offend) spreading drama (perhaps the only thing they are good at).

I win this time? I get anyone riled up? Is that the point?

Genteel Death 11.11.2010 07:16 PM

 

ni'k 11.11.2010 07:18 PM

 

ann ashtray 11.11.2010 07:19 PM

I'm done.

G'night.

keep poppin pimples 11.11.2010 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
They WERE important, yes. BUT>..they were designed to reach a mass audience. Original blues wasn't designed to reach anyone but yr next door neighbors. Of course, approaching the mid 1930's it had become "pop-music" (for blacks and the weirdo whites that considered it to be "avant garde", which in some way it was).

Let's not forget, the Stones visited Chicago only to discover their "hero" Muddy Waters painting the inside of a recording studio in order to make ends meet. Those folks were not playing because financial security was a guarantee. A "hope" at best.

Opera REQUIRED talent, blues required honesty. There is a difference. Holy shit, some of them early blues singers didn't have the most beautiful voices....but the lyrics, matched w/ at least minimal skill on whatever given instrument, went a long way. Blues has been, time and time again, ripped off...honestly, how many people you know listen to opera AND CONSIDER IT TO BE AN INSPIRATION? On the other hand, how many people you know listen to some variation of rock n roll (a DIRECT descendant of the blues)...?????






seriously man, don't do this, you aren't really saying much that doesn't apply to every kind of music that ever existed. do you think in all the millenia arabs existed before the usa was founded they never once managed to be bad at an instrument or express themself honestly? that applies to every other group in the (world except russians)

aside from technology based advancements the main thing americans have done with music that was not common practice in every corner of the world(except russia) is think they that they invented it


i love the fact that you think my using opera as a single example of lyrics being central to music means i think it's totally the best and most popular thing ever, it's also funny that you tried to make me look stupid and then went on to imply IN CAPITALS that no one finds a centuries old artform inspiring

Genteel Death 11.11.2010 07:22 PM

 

ni'k 11.11.2010 07:22 PM

 

Glice 11.11.2010 07:24 PM

Just before I start with this post, I'll say that this is generally the sort of feelings I get when reading the majority of posts on this forum. Some people can get away with terrible posting just by having a bit about them - 'getting it', if you will - but most of you fill me with barely-suppressed revulsion and bile. Anyway, to continue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Jimi


Shite, but good looking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Keith Richards got it.


Past-tense, but still shite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
The Beatles


Yo ho HO! No, shite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
blues


Shite (generally)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Elvis

Amazing, obviously, but for American Trilogy, not whatever shite you're talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Stooges


SHITE.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Stones


SHITE.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
White Stripes


Not even real people. Shite doesn't cover it, but if I were to use different words it might imply that they were something other than shite.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Jimi


Did I mention he was shite? I probably did, but let's go over my critique in detail: Jimi Hendrix was shite (but beautiful)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Acid Mother's Temple


Shite. But, in fairness, a good live band. Shiter since Cotton left though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Nirvana


Whinging shite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Screaming Trees


If you didn't make this band up, they're shite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Allman Brothers


You clearly made these up.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Sex Pistols


Cute shite.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
The Cramps


Brilliant, but not for the reasons you seem to think.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
Earth

Really? Very very dull band. In an interesting way. But, for your purposes, shite.

demonrail666 11.11.2010 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ni'k
man, did you actually read it?

seriously, its sway. you just skip his posts.

that's how it works.


So why did you respond to it?

Glice 11.11.2010 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann ashtray
(for blacks and the weirdo whites that considered it to be "avant garde", which in some way it was).


Oh God, I've been trolled. Boy, is my face red.

Glice 11.11.2010 07:35 PM

Oh, and actually having read some things in this thread, opera (not the browser) is fucking awesome.

ni'k 11.11.2010 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666
So why did you respond to it?


 

ni'k 11.11.2010 07:37 PM

glice would have hit a homerun if he had said the cramps were at least kind of shit.

as it is i still think u shud copy and paste what he said over ur original post sway.

maybe print it out and stick it on ur refrigerator aswell.

Glice 11.11.2010 07:39 PM

I know, I know. If he'd said anyone else, I'd have carried on with it. But the Cramps are just that sexy. They were kind of shit though. Just... very sexy with it.

Glice 11.11.2010 07:41 PM

Anyway. Let's all hold hands and listen to this

ni'k 11.11.2010 07:46 PM

 

ann ashtray 11.11.2010 07:55 PM

Oh, I know we didn't invent music. Likewise, I also know we reinvented it. Hendrix was appreciated elsewhere before here for good reason (and lets not forget, he was directly influenced by music from HERE, as opposed to else where. The ignorant...yes, I said it, regarded him as being an authentic/black blues musician when here he was considered to be anything but).

Without the US:

No Beatles
No Stones
No Acid Mothers Temple
No Who
No Screamin' Lord Such
No led Zep
No Pistols
,,,the list is endless.


And let's not go into what would be going on if there was no Dolls, MC5, Stooges, The Dogs, Ramones, Television, Nirvana, etc...

really, what would you have been listening to? Would Nik be listening to black metal???????????? 8 ball says "highly unlikely".

I'm not trying to be an asshole, it was a rant for rants sake...but still, to date, no one will present (at least they haven't yet...) a valid counter-argument...unless, of course, you would have me believe opera is more important in today's popular (as well as so called "indie" music) than Muddy Waters or Robert Johnson....people still getting named dropped despite what genre of music one approaches.

Proofs in the pudding....how many opera singers can ya name drop (without researching right now)...how many blues/rock artists can ya name drop.

Sometimes I forget Elvis sold more records than anyone in history, until a few years ago, when Nirvana took that title. Sorry it wasn't some Italian woman yr great-great grandmother took seriously.

There is a thread, sure, maybe, but it was stolen/reinvented by poor people playing circuits that didn't require a dress code (and for good reason...).

Say what you will.

As far as I can tell, blues was the first form of music that require individual expression more than anything else. No dress code, and no resume required in order to perform. And the history is EASY to trace....very few "religious" influences to take into consideration, and next to no political ones.

How do YOU feel....now go write a song about it. Who cares if you can sing or play. Celebrate or meditate.

That field "call and response" hollering really did change everything, a change that is still loud and clear.

So, say it's "shite", but what would you be listening to without it. Really, it matters. History matter. The ramones may have came from elvis may have came from chuck berry may have came from muddy waters may have came from robert johnson may have came from field hollerers may have came from misery...but still, there is absolutely no way around the fact.

Some say it doesn't matter, I say that's fine. But w/ all due respect, to me it does matter.

ni'k 11.11.2010 08:02 PM

 

ann ashtray 11.11.2010 08:06 PM

Scum Manifesto! Repost Please! Only Because It's Not Available Elsewhere!

floatingslowly 11.11.2010 08:11 PM

I almost gave +points for trolling swa into quitting over another tl;dr, but he came back with more tl;dl.

swa() = 2*tl;dr
trolls= 1*I_quit
glice= ???

everyone in this thread needs to try harder imo

Genteel Death 11.11.2010 08:11 PM

I don't think there wouldn't be any good music if it wasn't for the Americans AT ALL. Besides, who discovered the place, who gave it its two most spoken languages etc etc?

ni'k 11.11.2010 08:11 PM

 

ann ashtray 11.11.2010 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genteel Death
I don't think there wouldn't be any good music if it wasn't for the Americans AT ALL. Besides, who discovered the place, who gave it its two most spoken languages etc etc?


Better yet, who reacted AGAINST those that gave it it's language....?? Who stayed vs. who left? Of course, this is a matter of opinion.

haha

WHO KICKED WHOSE ASS!?!?!?!?!?! (not a matter of opinion).

noisereductions 11.11.2010 08:16 PM

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ann ashtray again.

swa(y) was totally annoying. But he died and was reborn a self-aware phoenix.

Genteel Death 11.11.2010 08:18 PM

Well much of what it's deemed culturally remarkable in the history of the US is related in one way or another to the Europeans. Like it or not.


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