Sonic Youth Gossip - Nas vs. Bob Dylan

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Nas vs. Bob Dylan

Been thinkin' a lot lately that the top rappers, people like Nas and, I guess Biggie when he was alive, are actually better lyricists than any one from the rock world - Dylan, Young, Beatles, etc, etc.

First off, they are almost always less pretensious, and the way they put words together is infinitely more complex than the words in any rock song I can think of. If you've never heard Nas, here's a link to one of his best songs:

=> http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.ph...593CF76B2A55FE

Any Nas fans on the board? Nas haterz? Why do Nas and other rappers never get the credit they deserve (they are usually either labelled as angry young men, or just ignored altogether)?

Nas is a terrible hip-hop artist. His lyrics may be okay but his delivery is boring and his beats are contrived and uninteresting.

Madlib is a much better artist.

you make yourself look bad when you say that. Nas = 'terrible' = you = 'moron'

And how is it that that happens? It fucking doesn't. Face it, others have their opinions. Accept it, cunt.

ooh, touche!

I know you have an opinion, numbnuts, I just think its totally silly and contrived. Saying Nas is terrible is an attention-grabbing statement. Its like saying the beatles were terrible. I dont like em, but I can see that the beatles had talent - they just werent for me. Likewise, Nas's talent is patent.

Now Nas is comparable to the Beatles? He's a generic rapper. He's nothing special. The beats are dreadful and boring. His lyrics are good but his delivery is worthless.

Saying he is terrible is nothing 'attention-grabbing'. He isn't a fucking legend or anything.

He is a legend, unlike Madlib (you really think any1 will give a shit about him 10 yrs from now). Nas is not LIKE the beatles, but he has talent, like the beatles.

OK, some of his mid-career stuff was generic, and his production is not always great, but even the best artists have patchy work, and Nas can't really be held to fault for his production - he just raps.

Madlib is a beat God. Madlib is far more talented and brilliant than Nas could ever hope to be.

FIN

Thats almost funny. tell me then: which of the mainstream rappers would you consider talented, because as far as Im concerned, none of them have ever matched nas for complex rhymes and storytelling?

Mos Def is. Nas is talented at story telling. I've stated that in this thread. I just don't find him interesting. Most of the rap on the radio is terrible. Nas is one of the top artists in a pile of boring music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ted_kennedy

ooh, touche!

I know you have an opinion, numbnuts, I just think its totally silly and contrived. Saying Nas is terrible is an attention-grabbing statement.

Comparing Nas' to Bob Dylan's songwriting in your topic title, when Dylan is widely considered by most critics to be the best songwriter ever, is nothing but an attempt at "attention-grabbing" & controversy-mongering.
Step the fuck off, troll. You're not fooling anyone (yet).

You didn't, you said his lyrics were 'OK'. Yea, Mos is reasonably talented, but I bet if you were able to ask him, he would say that Nas was the superior MC of the two.

And Ive just been listening to Madlib and that production hurts (in a bad, bad way) - lame and boring. If you are into underground hiphop for the cache it brings, you might as well listen to someone from the underground with talent. Give Sage Francis - Personal Journals a listen, or maybe some Aesop Rock.

But remember, underground rap will never achieve what underground punk/rock/noise will achieve, so dont look there for real hiphop. It will always be dominated by priviledged white boys. Unlike in rock, there are no channels for real independant rap artists - and not suburban imitators - to go through, they will always have to go for the majors because thats the only way they'll be able to make a living.

Madlib's production is ace. You obviously have no taste.

next troll plz

Quote:

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Fair enough, the title was attention grabbing, but I think my point still stands. who the fuck cares what critics say. Are any of them BLACK critics - i think not many. Nas's lyrics ARE more complex. Print some out, then print some Dylan and you'll see.

PS I am actually a Dylan fan too , so im not on some anti-dylan trip

and plz stop calling me a troll, im just trying to have a discussion about things that interest me

Quote:

Originally Posted by ted_kennedy

Are any of them BLACK critics - i think not many.

The race card is boring.

"American Way"
(feat. Kelis)
[Sample - Nas: "Political"]
[Newscaster:] "Recently there has been an emergence of socially
conscious and political rappers. It seems to be
a new trend in the Hip-Hop world."
[DJ scratches sample - Nas: "Nas is a rebel to America" 3X]
[Vers 1: Nas]
Yeah, check it, uh
Spot build-rocker, lil' papa killed Hoffa
Beard lil' longer, feel strong and I'll stop ya
Drill sergeant, still thorough, wheelbarrows of distilled vodka
Get me real bonkers like Will Ferrell on cat tranquilizer
Rap guys get bank and think they messiahs, but they liars
Vote fo who now? You're red, white and blue?
I'm American too, but I ain't with the president's crew
What you peddlin' and who you peddlin' to?
You ain't got the ghetto with you
Try'na lead my sheep to the slaughterhouse
Talkin 'bout +Rap the Vote+, you ain't thought about
The black vote mean nathan, who you gonna elect
Satan or Satan? In the hood nothin is changin, uh
We ain't got no choices who to choose
Ten-years ago they were tryin to stop our voices
And end Hip-Hop, they some hypocrites
Condoleeza Rice - I don't really get this chick
Tell her if she ever really cared about poor schools
About poor children, then she gotta prove that she
ain't just another coon Uncle Tom fool
Like these MC's, gotta give 'em the rules
Lie to the youth, Uncle Tom you confused
Might as well give the Hip-Hop community a noose
Need a truce with the gangs and some food for the hungry
On Kerry nuts, he look at you like a monkey
You MC's on that old slavery path
The Bushs'll look at yo' ass and laugh
See, it's all about community, let's help ourselves
Cops brutalize us get dealt with with shells
It's our turn, it's 'bout time we win
Need somebody as the hood as my councilman, uh
[Chorus: Kelis]
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way, shit
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way, shit
([Nas:] Cause that's the American way)
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way, shit
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way
[Verse 2: Nas]
Up in the steam room chillin', exfoliating the skin
It's rarely men conversatin' on ends, probably businessmen
I sense good taste, and they watch us, the spots an expensive place
Manhattan New York, I'm try'na keep steamin'
It's good for the lungs, had plans for the evening
This man leans in, his boys laughing
Now I'm the spokesperson for Black men, this always happens
Says, "Since all Black women care about is who got dough
And all we do is call them either bitch or a Black hoe"
I say first brotha you ain't gotta be that cold
Since you ignorant, I'ma show you how the facts go
The biggest example in scandal of history
Were Monica Lewinksy or Donald Trump's pimping spree
Most woman who love Jeevanji of Gucci
Are pretentious non-Black groupies or floozies
But who are we to blame, not the dames
It's a man-made game, in essence our woman the same
Beautiful creatures, Black girls birthed the earth
So they deserve to earn man's purse
Matter fact, I'm about to go shopping with my dime
Catch you cowards the next time, the next rhyme, uh
[Chorus: Kelis singing]
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way, shit
([Nas:] That's the American way)
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way, shit
([Nas:] Cause that's the American way. What up, K?)
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way, shit
([Nas:] That's the American way)
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way, shit
([Nas:] Ha, yeah)
I don't care about the runaways
I don't care about who's gay
I don't care about dying of AIDS
But I care if I got paid
Who even cares about the president?
I think they're making a mistake
I don't care about the hurricane
As long as my family's safe
I don't care about the candidates
They burnt this country to bits
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way ([Nas:] Uh)
Can we make a change
You know it's not overnight
Let's start the fight (Nas: And ya don't stop, uh)
Can we make a change
You know it's not overnight
Let's start the fight (Nas: Yeah)
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way

wow, he rhymes "way" with "day" in the chorus...brilliant!
He's got an album called "Illmatic" & another called "Stillmatic"...genius!

The race card is relevant, so dont dodge it. As a proportion of the cultural establishment in the US a tiny fraction is black. Inevitably, the results to these types of polls, and simple dominant opinions, will reflect the makeup of the (white) people that create them.