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Mortte Jousimo 06.28.2015 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
of course it is. sounds like rush, and rush (sucky as they were in many ways) were one of the last gasps of prog before it was chucked out of the window by punk.

the ONLY reason people say "math" and "mathy" is because they're ashamed to say prog. it's just fucking hipster posturing. but it is what it is.

look, punk couldn't last forever. the ramones did something great but they were also very fucking boring because all the songs sounded the same. after punk, people wanted to play music again. more than 2 chords. but hey, they just had been making fun of this complex shit you couldn't dance to! so, they waited, then cleaned up the excesses and threw out the elves and the costumes and the hippie hair and called it "math".

math is... prog by gen-xers

enjoy your sons-of-rush album dude.

i'm going to go listen to some prog-punk deerhoof now.

Rush is to me only band I like that could call neoprog. All that other stuff sucks (always hated for example Dream Theater). Prog is so large scale of different bands. The direction I love the most is just that melodic direction that was in the end of sixties and the begin of seventies. I think mellotron is the instrument from god!

I could call Minutemen and Nomeansno punkprog. They got punkattitude but songs structures from prog. But can you call Captain Beefheart & Frank Zappa prog? Never done it, but I think you can.

I am not also the biggest Ramones fan, but like Motörhead, something glamorous they have. Itīs the "we invent a wheel, why do it again?"

Mortte Jousimo 06.28.2015 01:34 AM

few more beautiful pieces from the 60/70:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBt6x3Kw_Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAfyOYBBg9Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0oH3DK9scw

Severian 06.28.2015 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
of course it is. sounds like rush, and rush (sucky as they were in many ways) were one of the last gasps of prog before it was chucked out of the window by punk.

the ONLY reason people say "math" and "mathy" is because they're ashamed to say prog. it's just fucking hipster posturing. but it is what it is.

look, punk couldn't last forever. the ramones did something great but they were also very fucking boring because all the songs sounded the same. after punk, people wanted to play music again. more than 2 chords. but hey, they just had been making fun of this complex shit you couldn't dance to! so, they waited, then cleaned up the excesses and threw out the elves and the costumes and the hippie hair and called it "math".

math is... prog by gen-xers

enjoy your sons-of-rush album dude.

i'm going to go listen to some prog-punk deerhoof now.



Man, come on. So you're saying that the bands that influenced Don Cab, like Scratch Acid, Squirrel Bait, Slint, Bitch Magnet, Unwound, Gastr Del Sol, Fugazi... these were all just plain prog bands? Prog bands that happened to be on KRS and Touch and Go and Drag City?

Nah. I disagree. These were punk bands who wanted to fuck with time signatures and play more intensely and inventively aggressive music. I've heard plenty of Rush and Styx, and I've heard some Yes, and Genesis, and I have never heard any of those bands play in a way that bore anything beyond a passing resemblanc to the Math Rock.

If you were to say that "post-Rock" was more or less just prog for punks, I'd say that was fair. But even with groups like Gybe and ASMZ, fly pan am and Do Make Say Think and Explosions in the Sky, the source material was still post-punk. For Yes, the source material was "rock" mixed with fucking madrigals, Celtic folk, jazz fusion, musical theatre and a bunch of other styles that are totally absent from the post-punk and drone of "post-rock."

I have respect for Yes and Genesis despite all the embarrassing crap they did, and the entire Phil Collins era. But don't bring Rush into this man. Rush turned into fucking Air Supply in the '80s. Just awful lite-rock big synth brick droppers.

At least separate the decent/not 100% embarrassing prog from the very shit that punk and post-punk were born to obliterate. I will not stand for Don Cab and Rodan and June of 44 being called prog. No sir, I don't like it.


...
Now Tortoise... Tortoise was prog. Their first two records are among my favorite albums of all time, and "Djed" is probably one of the best songs I've ever had the pleasure of hearing. But... there's no denying their progness.

!@#$%! 06.28.2015 05:03 PM

ew, styx. fucking gross.

lissen, man, i'm having some gin & tonics so i can't read this.

don't overthink it.

prog is not a style or a genre-- it's a force.

it's the force that wants to make things rich & complex & interesting.

that's it. that's that.

music is an orgy. there are no condoms.

now get a fucking drink yourself. you think too much. i do that monday through friday. it's sunday. i'm off the clock. ha ha.

but in no respect he plays just like neal peart.

or you're deaf.

Severian 06.28.2015 05:03 PM

Remember when We Can't Dance came out? That video for "No Son of Mine"? What a godawful fate for a band that once made some damned interesting music. Irritating bald guys dancing on Vh1, looking like the dictionary definition of "lame"...

I've always enjoyed Peter Gabriel, and had a great deal of respect for him. I'd like to expose myself to more of the original Genesis material, but.... I'm just a scared little punk-type-stuff guy.

!@#$%! 06.28.2015 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Severian
Remember when We Can't Dance came out? That video for "No Son of Mine"? What a godawful fate for a band that once made some damned interesting music. Irritating bald guys dancing on Vh1, looking like the dictionary definition of "lame"...


for all that you talk & talk you need to listen equally

go & read what i wrote about phil collins a page back

fucks sakes

can't stay & argue. madame !@#$%! is back home & it's a party.

 


tomorrow we eat fresh carnitas

Bytor Peltor 06.28.2015 09:06 PM

 

Mortte Jousimo 06.29.2015 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
ew, styx. fucking gross.

lissen, man, i'm having some gin & tonics so i can't read this.

don't overthink it.

prog is not a style or a genre-- it's a force.

it's the force that wants to make things rich & complex & interesting.

that's it. that's that.

music is an orgy. there are no condoms.

now get a fucking drink yourself. you think too much. i do that monday through friday. it's sunday. i'm off the clock. ha ha.

but in no respect he plays just like neal peart.

or you're deaf.

I agree. Prog is really not anything sad, itīs just too many people who has put that stample on it.

And punk can be sad also, just watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6_45SdPsxQ

About Genesis, I donīt think We canīt dance is the worst album ever (of course itīs really not the best Genesis album). I really like also Jesus He Knows me-vid. Of course DK did same "message in song" years ago, but anyway I think it was brave thing to do with the band like that. I think there were many religius people who were mad to them that time. To me lowest Genesis song is Invisible Touch, not hate even that anymore as much I used to.

And Rush...well I donīt also like a lot their after Signals albums (power Windows is ok, have also Presto on cassette) but Rush is not also worst music in the world.

Rob Instigator 06.29.2015 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
When did the dotted eighth notes become a staple of the genre? That's sort of my sticking point with "non-traditional" jazz. I need to hear the swing. But it didn't always have that?


It always swung, but it was codified into a specific beat and called Swing music. Then the bebop folks said FUCK THAT SHIT and went OFF. Then Brubeck said I am gonna nerd this Jazz up with 13/15 time signatures and get a drummer that plays so complex he confuses the lame-o's

evollove 06.29.2015 12:52 PM

I see. And then sampling came along and drummers had to get a real job? (kidding--drummers are great)

---

Listened to most of LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROADWAY while taking a long walk yesterday. Long album, but relatively short tracks. Lots to like: no endless synth solos, really good vocalist with really good lyrics, catchy tunes, a nice variety of instruments. I'm going to go ahead and call this "prog-pop." Sue me.

Phil Collins' existence is really a problem, though. I just pretend he hated every minute of it, was only in it for the money, and secretly hated all the arty ideas surrounding him.

Mortte Jousimo 06.29.2015 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
Listened to most of LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROADWAY while taking a long walk yesterday. Long album, but relatively short tracks. Lots to like: no endless synth solos, really good vocalist with really good lyrics, catchy tunes, a nice variety of instruments. I'm going to go ahead and call this "prog-pop." Sue me.

Phil Collins' existence is really a problem, though. I just pretend he hated every minute of it, was only in it for the money, and secretly hated all the arty ideas surrounding him.

As you might know, youīre wrong. According to Genesis document I just watched he really enjoyed to join the group (he came to Nursery Cryme). At first he was really wondering the atmosphere of the band, because he has always been open minded and others not (somebody just went away with banging doors in some rehearsals without any seeing arguments of anybody), but he get used to it soon. He really didnīt want to start to be vocalist after Gabriel, but others demand it. I have always liked his drumming, vocals are ok. As you can notice, also Genesis have had a lots of Spinal Tap.

Lamb Lies was my first whole Genesis album. Really didnīt understand the whole thing at first, but many listenings started to love it. Albums from Foxtrot to Lamb Lies are my favourites, hard to say which of them is the best (really also love their Live-album, I think itīs the only prog-live album that time only one album long). And yes, I think prog-pop is correct term with Genesis. Even they have album oneside song "Suppers ready", it also has a lot of pop elements.

Rob Instigator 06.29.2015 01:24 PM

 

 

!@#$%! 06.29.2015 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo
We canīt dance is the worst album ever (of course itīs really not the best Genesis album).


it's not progressive-- it's regressive

devolution is REAL!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo
To me lowest Genesis song is Invisible Touch


ugh! vomit....

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
I'm going to go ahead and call this "prog-pop." Sue me.

why sue you? see if you can give a free listen to genesis' first album. it's hilariously a lot like the beegees with heavy beatles influence. you can see where they came from.

gabriel split off to do solo work eventually collaborate with laurie anderson and later release some rather brilliant pop hits as well-- with amazing videos. and later the soundtrack to last temptation of christ, etc. i mean i haven't followed the guy's solo career much but while he never shied away from pop success it was always by adding something interesting or collaborating with other good artists.

anyway, here's a funny read for you:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/mus...cent-gallo-yes

==

anyway, listening right now to...

 

palestrina's MISSA PAPAE MARCELLI

the cat appears to like it

demonrail666 06.29.2015 01:34 PM

 


Coil - Horse Rotorvator

My first coil album. For the first few listens I didn't like it at all. Still not sure if I do now but I've been listening to it a lot and bits of it are starting to sink in. It isn't what I was expecting but then I'm not really sure what I was expecting. Is this a typical Coil album or have they radically changed their sound at different times? I wonder if I've got the 'wrong' album as an introduction to them.

evollove 06.29.2015 02:58 PM

Rob inspired me. Minor Threat: the ultimate anti-prog.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo
As you might know, youīre wrong.


Damn. I really don't like Phil Collins. If it's true bad art is made by bad people, he must be molesting a child at this very moment.

Mortte, have you heard Pentangle - Basket of Light (1969)? If not, let me know if gives you an erection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2cBT8--7tA

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!


Think I'll stick with Marty, Spike and Woody when it comes to music, as well.

!@#$%! 06.29.2015 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
Think I'll stick with Marty, Spike and Woody when it comes to music, as well.


i was not endorsing that, or gallo! i just thought it was a funny article. e.g.:

Every time I play Tales from Topographic Oceans, I have to laugh at myself and ask: "Am I really listening to Yes?" The band were a joke back in 1977, associated with creepy basement dwellers who read fantasy novels while watching VHS tapes of Rick Emerson stabbing his keyboard with Nazi daggers.

Mortte Jousimo 06.30.2015 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
.

Mortte, have you heard Pentangle - Basket of Light (1969)? If not, let me know if gives you an erection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2cBT8--7tA

This gives me an erection, or at least I really could watch her singing all day long if it was still possible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyzh...D4BD39AAA6E1EB

I have read about Pentagle, going to listen that album.

And a few words about Phil Collins, I donīt believe heīs the one who did lot in Genesis that time. Even they have said it was group work, I think the most creative forces were Peter Gabriel & Tony Banks. This was one of the first Collins songs to Genesis and I donīt have to say it anything more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mCeEGNbM-U

About Gabriel solos, yes heīs made a lot better solo career than for example Collins. But still I think even heīs hadnīt been as great as his own as with Genesis. But anyway Genesis direction started to go worse right after Gabriel left (Trick Of the Tail is good album but not really even near of Lamb).

Mortte Jousimo 06.30.2015 02:26 AM

Yes, Basket Of Life is great album! Hereīs one more, beautiful album with beautiful voice lady (specially at the Harbour is just amazing!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu1GuGXGvyE

Listening this also first time my life even Iīve known itīs existence. Damn, two more albums of my long list albums I should buy someday! Renaissance is more symphonic prog than Pentangle or Fairport Convention, but there are also folk elements. Really not sound Yes to me at all, more Procol Harum. Any other Procol fans here?

Bytor Peltor 06.30.2015 07:51 AM

'Horse Rotorvator' is a Coil classic!

"The Anal Staircase" is probably the best opening track to any Coil album, spawning this EP

For my money, John Balance's voice sounds the best on this release. The album is also full of oddities that grow on you with every listen.

Scatology and Loves Secret Domain (LSD) are probably the other two most popular Coil proper releases......How To Destroy Angels and The Unreleased Themes From Hellraiser are both instrumental albums that are not to be skipped!

You're correct in assuming that Coil has changed it's direction over time......and in my opinion, 'Horse Rotorvator' is a great place to start.



Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666
 


Coil - Horse Rotorvator

My first coil album. For the first few listens I didn't like it at all. Still not sure if I do now but I've been listening to it a lot and bits of it are starting to sink in. It isn't what I was expecting but then I'm not really sure what I was expecting. Is this a typical Coil album or have they radically changed their sound at different times? I wonder if I've got the 'wrong' album as an introduction to them.


Bytor Peltor 06.30.2015 09:22 AM

Dead Air Fresheners - The Colour Out of Space 10/13/14


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