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-   -   Is Trump really a serious contender for the Republican nomination? (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=113183)

ilduclo 07.29.2016 05:33 PM

I think a lot of folks have libertard characteristics. We're all rugged individualists until we need the "village", then we're all in line for the gov't goodies.

!@#$%! 07.29.2016 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo
I think a lot of folks have libertard characteristics. We're all rugged individualists until we need the "village", then we're all in line for the gov't goodies.

it might be that, like communism, libertarianism only works on paper-- but still, some nice ideals in the mix

e.g.
http://www.lp.org/how-do-libertarian...mocrats-differ

demilitarize police? no war on drugs? end government spying? sounds good to me.

this is their current platform. it's less absurd than trump's for sure:

https://www.johnsonweld.com/issues

criminal justice reform sounds good to me

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 07.29.2016 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
it might be that, like communism, libertarianism only works on paper-- but still, some nice ideals in the mix

e.g.
http://www.lp.org/how-do-libertarian...mocrats-differ

demilitarize police? no war on drugs? end government spying? sounds good to me.

this is their current platform. it's less absurd than trump's for sure:

https://www.johnsonweld.com/issues

criminal justice reform sounds good to me


libertarianism essentially offers a pre-Civil War version of American government and shit we all see how that worked out.

indeed that website you posted is politically deceptive. most Libertarians have a much more extremist ideology about how to actually manifest the ideas in that platform. the platform is written in political speak that attracts certain kind of Democrats and Independents (the Bernie crowd) BUT how Libertarians actually propose to do to meet those goals is literally impossible. they are true conservatives but want to throw back to 19th century romantic idealism

ilduclo 07.29.2016 06:32 PM

there's some great "ideals" in just about any political philosophy. But the devil is in the details.

for instance, in the page you cited

"Dramatically reduce government spending now.
Balance the budget now.
No more debt."


absolutely a ruinous policy

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 07.29.2016 06:34 PM

further they completely contradict themselves.

"End the income tax.
Abolish the IRS.Never raise taxes."

how will government pay for anything?

" Return control to parents, teachers, local communities.
Enable high-quality, diversified education.
Allow property taxes to drop."

how will we pay for public education if we drop property taxes??

"Let market set interest rates."

oh yeah because that worked out so well in our history didn't it..

"Repeal Obamacare.
Rescind regulations.
Dramatically lower cost of health care."

and how exactly do they plan to reduce healthcare costs with less government spending and no regulations???

these people are so incoherent and illogical that frankly i think its a deception and manipulation hence politics as usual ;)

!@#$%! 07.29.2016 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo
there's some great "ideals" in just about any political philosophy. But the devil is in the details.

for instance, in the page you cited

"Dramatically reduce government spending now.
Balance the budget now.
No more debt."


absolutely a ruinous policy

the national debt is out of hand though

i get how zero debt causes recessions, i do

but also having fled here from south america i know what unpayable debts look like

and ive lived under hyperinflation

right now all we do is kick the can down the road--- thats also ruinous

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 07.29.2016 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
the national debt is out of hand though


that is myth perpetuated by Republicans. the debt is more imaginary than impacting. no one is going to demand the bonds and debt be paid, the "creditors" make $ on the interest and the government benefits from the access to cash


Quote:

but also having fled here from south america i know what unpayable debts look like

world of difference between American debt and other nation's debt.
Quote:

right now all we do is kick the can down the road--- thats also ruinous

that is because we and everyone in the world knows its a wink wink kind of debt. it doesn't really exist. no one is going to actually try and collect 15 trillion dollars.

The Soup Nazi 07.29.2016 07:02 PM

All I know is Sasha Alexander is hotter than a urinary infection.

!@#$%! 07.29.2016 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
that is myth perpetuated by Republicans. the debt is more imaginary than impacting. no one is going to demand the bonds and debt be paid, the "creditors" make $ on the interest and the government benefits from the access to cash




world of difference between American debt and other nation's debt.


that is because we and everyone in the world knows its a wink wink kind of debt. it doesn't really exist. no one is going to actually try and collect 15 trillion dollars.

remember japanz?
http://www.wonderwall.com/entertainm...-20054.gallery

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 07.29.2016 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

japan is not America, again the entire world benefits from US debt including every American.

anyway

How Much Does America’s Huge National Debt Actually Matter?

!@#$%! 07.29.2016 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
japan is not America, again the entire world benefits from US debt including every American.

anyway

How Much Does America’s Huge National Debt Actually Matter?

yes yes-- i know the argument

but as china started its own answer to the imf/world bank, we'll see what happens to the dollar as reserve currency in the future

i remember when people would go on tv in 2005 to say that there was no housing bubble. ha! ha ha ha!

anyway, this is a slower process, so we'll see in 2 decades

now im on a diff time zone and its friday so i gotta GTFO

The Soup Nazi 07.29.2016 08:24 PM

Federal judge strikes down Wisconsin election laws passed by GOP, Walker

pepper_green 07.29.2016 11:54 PM

I don't trust Hillary. I would say she sucks but good ol' Bill let us know otherwise.

Trump is a winner that thinks he can keep winning.

don't like either one and hate both parties and each candidate can go fuck off disappear forever and leave me alone blissed out off the grid. so that means I can express not to vote and watch this all go to hell like it should.

politics suck!! let you guys do the arguing and voting for me. see, that's America. kick back. watch with a bag of popcorn while doing nothing. fun stuff though and intellectually muscle flexing but, not for a cretin like me.:)

ilduclo 07.31.2016 11:15 AM

 

The Soup Nazi 07.31.2016 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo

 


No! America is a hellhole, and it's going down the crapper real fuckin' quick, and the world has no respect for it, and everybody in it is just weak! Why do you hate America? :D

!@#$%! 07.31.2016 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi
No! America is a hellhole, and it's going down the crapper real fuckin' quick, and the world has no respect for it, and everybody in it is just weak! Why do you hate America? :D

hahaha -- as deleuze and guattari put it so well, the paranoid is the fascist

but beware of the danger of not seeing the opponent's perspective-- this is what happened with the brexit-- politicians failing to understand legitimate popular concerns.

both corporate parties have obscured their failure to cope with the challenges that technology and globalization have brought the middle and working classes. the promised land of endless service jobs did not arrive.

where other first-wold countries (e.g. germany) have prospered through a combination of industrial transformation and the concerted cultivation of a highly capable workforce, here in 'merica workers were abandoned to "free market" forces while the young were given infinite debt for random and useless inflated college degrees-- hello indentured servitude.

so while benito drumpf is a fucking casino conman with no real solutions, he's clever enough to speak to disenfranchised workers and appeal to their emotions. same as bernied did from the left. but he won his nomination.

the jobs created arent that great or else get eaten by debt, unemployment doesnt account for withdrawal from the workforce, the deficit may have shrunk but debt has skyrocketed, obamacare is the greatest policy achievement of the century but far from perfect and always under threat and costs keep rising, and we're forever entangled with the middle east in a permanent hatefuck--- now it's isis this and isis that and more surveillance and never-ending war and chinese money burnt on military hardware.

of course voting for clinton/kaine is a matter of duty at this point, and anyone saying otherwise is delusional. but damn, i feel that hillary is gonna pull a gore and we'll end up with some nostradamus-level shitstorm of the millenium.

i console myself only with the thought that human mass extinction will be a great thing for the planet.

The Soup Nazi 07.31.2016 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
i console myself only with the thought that human mass extinction will be a great thing for the planet.


This election aside, I dug those World Without Humans/Life After People docs. The Earth reconstructing itself. Too bad the next creatures to disappear after humans are 86'd would be our pets, though.

 

!@#$%! 07.31.2016 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi
This election aside, I dug those World Without Humans/Life After People docs. The Earth reconstructing itself. Too bad the next creatures to disappear after humans are 86'd would be our pets, though.

 

cats can take care of themselves and where i live dogs go feral--that puppy will be feasting on human entrails very soon!

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 07.31.2016 09:34 PM

don't let the Gore election fool y'all, Bush only "won" because the country was doing so well and Bush advertised himself as a moderate conservative with social values, basically the polar opposite of the Trump campaign. people took the gamble on Bush because less seemed on the line at the time. now? trump supporters are only the 5 minutes till midnight crowd, hyper partisan hyper negative constituency.

only Nixon won on that ticket and frankly that is because most of the country resented the civil rights movement.

i think Trump will continue to hover around 35-40% and that is strictly because of partisan voting block.

Hillary already has that number on lock and all the jaded Bernie fanboys will inevitably vote for her too, so she will probably lock up over 50% and Barry O only needed 53% against a much more popular and electable Mitt Romney.

now personally the bigger problem with Hillary is she is going to have a weak mandate for essentially a NeverTrump platform. bitch could fuck around and sneak in all kinds of crazy shit.

i do believe Democrats will clean house across the board, Congress, Senate, state governors, state legislatures, even mayors and municipalities..

Republican brand destroying itself by abandoning its core values. good riddance

The Soup Nazi 07.31.2016 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
[...] now? trump supporters are only the 5 minutes till midnight crowd, hyper partisan hyper negative constituency.

only Nixon won on that ticket and frankly that is because most of the country resented the civil rights movement.


What's crazy (well, even crazier) is that while Trump's acceptance speech has been compared to Tricky Dick's own one from 1968, it is impossible to think of Donaldo saying things like Nixon did back then:

Quote:

What I call for is not a new isolationism. It is a new internationalism in which America enlists its allies and its friends around the world in those struggles in which their interest is as great as ours.
Quote:

Let us increase the wealth of America so that we can provide more generously for the aged; and for the needy; and for all those who cannot help themselves.

Bullshit, of course, but Trump didn't even bother; he just YELLED his fucking hate speech as loud as he could.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
now personally the bigger problem with Hillary is she is going to have a weak mandate for essentially a NeverTrump platform.


That'll depend on the perception of the mandate as dictated by the United States ridiculous electoral college system (and don't even get me started on federalism and why it should NOT apply to the U.S.). If Hillary wins in, say, FORTY states, it won't matter if she wins each of them 50.01% vs 49.99% — it'll be considered an epic landslide anyway.

The Soup Nazi 07.31.2016 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Bush only "won" because the country was doing so well and Bush advertised himself as a moderate conservative with social values


That and the fact that he basically promised to give the money saved during the Bill Clinton years "back to the people" [eyeroll] via taxslashes, which evidently appealed to Joe Sixpack and Hockey Mom more than Al Gore's "Medicare Lock Box".

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.01.2016 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi
What's crazy (well, even crazier) is that while Trump's acceptance speech has been compared to Tricky Dick's own one from 1968, it is impossible to think of Donaldo saying things like Nixon did back then:


Bullshit, of course, but Trump didn't even bother; he just YELLED his fucking hate speech as loud as he could.



That'll depend on the perception of the mandate as dictated by the United States ridiculous electoral college system (and don't even get me started on federalism and why it should NOT apply to the U.S.). If Hillary wins in, say, FORTY states, it won't matter if she wins each of them 50.01% vs 49.99% — it'll be considered an epic landslide anyway.


but mandates in American politics aren't determined by proportion of votes like in European politics rather in public perception, enthusiasm, and support and there is very little enthusiasm for Ovelord Hillary win or lose. reality is even Trump doesn't have genuine enthusiasm rather his "supporters" are enthusiastic about their partisanship but not necessarily their candidate. its essentially bizarro world John McCain.

!@#$%! 08.01.2016 12:19 AM

gore was a boring-ass fucking candidate. people wanted to "have a beer" with the fucking texan dolt instead. sure, the supreme court handed florida, and nader had a role in shaving those numbers close, but ultimately gore was a fucking boring candidate who squandered his advantage by being boring.

so im not counting my chickens yet.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo... ein-5952.html


hillary unfortunately is much more exciting when she's pissed off, putting the senate fuckers in their place, than when she's trying to be positive and cheery and sounding fake. she's effective but she's got anticharisma. then she picks kaine. zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

all the emotion in this campaign is coming from trump-- the hate, and the haters of hate. so here's to hating trump's hate---and to the self-destruction of the lunatic.

but dont count your chickens yet

evollove 08.01.2016 08:36 AM

Cause for optimism?

In 2000, Bush needed 41 percent of hispanic vote to win. He got 42 or something. In 2004, it was up a percentage point. McCain got 35 or so, Romney 28.

Trump is currently at 14-16%, depending on the source. I'm not sure what the needed Hispanic number is nowadays, but it ain't below 14%.

He's almost certainly going to loose the popular. And if we didn't have an electoral college I would sleep easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
but dont count your chickens yet


ilduclo 08.01.2016 08:54 AM

that's one of the reasons I wanted a Castro brother to be the veep choice. I think she missed a YUGE opportunity to mobilize those voters. In other e(r/l)ection news, Melanoma's web page with her Lower Slobbovian architecture degree has been removed from the web, but good ol Archive.org has saved it, including her beauty product line made with genuine fish eggs!

https://web.archive.org/web/20160720....com/my-world/

!@#$%! 08.01.2016 12:42 PM

@ evllv: no celebration until results are called in

@ ilducio: my panics don't need pandering with some unknown tejano, we already have jorge ramos on the departamento de movilización.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jorgeramo...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

evollove 08.01.2016 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
@ evllv: no celebration until results are called in


Yeah, I was agreeing with you. It's my mantra. I'm going to be a nervous wreck the next 100 days or so, no matter what the polls say.

Wish I didn't live in Ohio. I might have to canvass. Damn it.

The Soup Nazi 08.01.2016 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
Yeah, I was agreeing with you. It's my mantra. I'm going to be a nervous wreck the next 100 days or so, no matter what the polls say.



I plan on hibernating until November 9, when I will hopefully wake up with Clinton as President-elect and brush off the campaign as one long, LONG, LONG motherfucking nightmare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
Wish I didn't live in Ohio.


Oyyyy... Sorry for ya, man. :(

!@#$%! 08.01.2016 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
Yeah, I was agreeing with you. It's my mantra. I'm going to be a nervous wreck the next 100 days or so, no matter what the polls say.

Wish I didn't live in Ohio. I might have to canvass. Damn it.

if you get burned out by knocking doors you can always help with the data. that's what i did.

also, phone banks.

evollove 08.01.2016 01:11 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "the data." Sounds painless. I got really lucky: There's a Democratic office within easy walking distance of where I live. I'll ask if they have anything for lazy people who don't love Hillary but fucking hate Trump.

I canvassed like a motherfucker in 2008. It was difficult but I'm convinced knocking on a door an engaging a stranger in conversation is the best way to win someone over. Yeah, the hardest thing is the most effective. Damn you Life!

!@#$%! 08.01.2016 01:16 PM

you go over the list of voter data and make sure it's up to date etc as canvassers return so that you don't send people after the wrong place again or start pissing people off by sending 10 canvassers to the same house. it's the back end to the street activity. "moved" "voted early" "undecided" etc.

i'd rather deal with boring computers than people ha ha ha. but did my bit of that too-- i even drove people to the polls!

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 08.01.2016 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
Cause for optimism?

In 2000, Bush needed 41 percent of hispanic vote to win. He got 42 or something. In 2004, it was up a percentage point. McCain got 35 or so, Romney 28.

Trump is currently at 14-16%, depending on the source. I'm not sure what the needed Hispanic number is nowadays, but it ain't below 14%.

He's almost certainly going to loose the popular. And if we didn't have an electoral college I would sleep easy.


the electoral college in particular is what dooms Trump.

The Soup Nazi 08.01.2016 03:38 PM

You gotta be shitting me (yet again):

The Latest: Trump: The election might be "rigged"

Also (same link): Pocket Constitution Sales Soar After Trump Feud With Khan Family!

ilduclo 08.01.2016 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
if you get burned out by knocking doors you can always help with the data. that's what i did.

also, phone banks.


me and Ms Ild cook dinners and lunches for campaign volunteers and drop them by our local Democratic Hq. I also volunteer to help set up and take down for their yearly "Chili Cookoff". I have been thinking about entering my chili (which is purely magnificent and would EASILY beat all the others), but there is more need for me to drive equipment back & forth in my little red truck;)

The Soup Nazi 08.01.2016 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
I'm going to be a nervous wreck the next 100 days or so, no matter what the polls say.

Wish I didn't live in Ohio. I might have to canvass. Damn it.


This is Ohio right now according to The New York Times (check the link to review their methodology):

 

ilduclo 08.01.2016 06:10 PM

big kicks for HRC according to 538.org today, though 64/37 polls only, 68/32 polls plus aaand 82/18 on the now cast

 

!@#$%! 08.01.2016 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo

 


this picture wins the thread

damn, this picture wins ALL threads

dead_battery 08.02.2016 01:07 PM

trumps dogs are trying to incite violence

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger stone
If there’s voter fraud, this election will be illegitimate, the election of the winner will be illegitimate, we will have a constitutional crisis, widespread civil disobedience, and the government will no longer be the government," Stone said. He also promised a "bloodbath" if the Democrats attempt to "steal" the election."


hopefully they get put down

The Soup Nazi 08.03.2016 02:37 PM

This is just fuckin' priceless, W.C. Fields stuff without the (intended) comedy:

Trump at rally: 'Get the baby out of here'

Video: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...g-women-voters

greenlight 08.03.2016 03:31 PM

hey guys when does the Trump Vs Clinton debates starting? are there gonna be any? this will be most spectacular show ever...

 


or?


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