Common misconceptions of transgender women
 

Maybe I should put this in the "not enough gays" thread, but I want more people to see it. I'm noticing that even the "woke" generation are often misinformed.

- the large majority of trans women are lesbian. Something like 70% if I remember correctly. Some are bi or pan. Less are straight. Think about it: from birth you hate your body, you hate anything masculine. Extreme dysphoria. Why would you like that on other people? So transphobes - you have no reason to get uncomfortable. Odds are we are not attracted to you in any way. If you have trouble getting women to fuck you, trans women don't want to fuck you either. Get over yourself.

- this is not a cultural phenomenon. Transgender persons make up less than 2% of the population. It's simply we are no longer as oppressed by western puritanism so more people are coming out, akin to gays in the 90s.

- As all bodies have a spectrum of both testosterone and estrogen, this has always existed throughout all of history and throughout all cultures. Many cultures, especially in Asia have always recognized several genders. Some tribes they were shamans as they were seen to have the wisdom of both sexes.

- There is a biological factor. The current most popular medical understanding of why "the brain doesn't match the body" is that this spectrum of hormones is flipped during gestation of the fetus. The brain forms first. It gets majority estrogen so a "girl brain" is formed. Something switches and the rest of the body recieves majority testosterone through the rest of development. This is evidenced by MRI brain patterns.

- very few trans women have "fake" breasts in the sense of plastic surgery. Trans women take hormones. This redistributes weight from arms, etc, to hips and breasts, etc.

- trans women are not as strong as cis men. See above. Hormones play a large role in strength. We have the same capacities as cis women.

Never, ever, ever, EVER tell a trans woman "you're so lucky you don't get periods". That is incredibly insulting.

Body dysphoria encompasses everything, including a reproductive system. Even if we don't want kids we want a uterus, ovaries, eggs, everything. Yes, we understand periods are annoying, but since transitioning I often think about the fact that I will never be a mother. It makes me very sad.

this was a big "aha!" for me (& again thanks)

one misconception of transgender womnen is that they are men

I disagree, yes they are transgender women

I disagree, yes they are women. (they just had a fucked up birth.)

this was a big "aha!" for me (& again thanks)

women are like onions

they have many layers

Good stuff. The dysphoria and the biological thing really provides a lot of insight.

I remember hearing that the hormones actually mess with bone density too lowering their strength n stuff.

so, I was misinformed about what the woke generation is, never heard of it. And then I couldn't keep myself from thinking about wokees while reading the remainder of what you wrote. So I couldn't stop laughing. Sorry, I'm in this mood this morning. (and I first intended to embed that picture, but I imagined you would wanted to have me banned from this place)

And I know that it is extremely insulting, and I honestly don't mean it. Because that is exactly what you're facing in certain let's say classes of civility. I'll give an example.

Have you heard about this news reporter in Belgium last year? He's the anchor for the prime time news on public TV, he's in his late fifties, married and two adult kids. And suddenly he took a break for let's say half a year, and then she was a woman. Doing the exact same job, with full support from the TV channel. And she was very open on TV about her reasoning in various interviews. (and I edited that last line from masculine to feminine)

Belgium and Netherlands are neighboring countries, and naturally we already make fun of each other (why does a Belgian always have a pair of scissors in his car? To cut the corners). So this was the reaction in the Netherlands on TV on a show where they discuss football, the most watched programs for people who like football. Unfortunately for you this is in Dutch language and no subtitling.

René van der Gijp, former football player and now analyst and joker, announced that he would from now on go on as Renate. Next to him is Johan Boskamp, former player and trainer especially in Belgium. Those two are usually very funny, but I dislike that moustache guy. I watched that show occasionally, but now I stopped.


thank you for being open, and giving this explanation. It is very learning. And your last line made me cry


I don't know where else to put this, so I'll add this here:
have you heard about what they did in Russia with the Elton John movie? They cut out all the gay scenes
That is so insulting. I can in a way understand that they cut out the sex scene, but to remove the end title card because they don't want to tell that he is married with children

im drunk rn and there was a transgender woman at a diner i frequent



and i feel the need to preface this post with the fact that while i may not fully understand transgenderism, i fully support people's decisions to live their own lives and feel every single person on the planet holds more knowledge than me on one thing or another so i give them intellectual respect just out of that


still i feel as though i have so many questions


for instance i just learned that transgender and non-binary were different


also i must say a lot of transgender people are obviously transgender and not cisgender female - is it offensive to point out that this is routinely apparent? like i do respect that you may self-identify as female but to me you definitely look like someone who was born a male and felt more female so thats the side you express - therefore your appearance is somewhere in between


white liberals get so afraid to ask questions, and i hope i dont offend anyone, but like is this a sticking point as a transgender individual?


sorry im hammered

1. They're different but similar. Trans people (like Danielle) do identify as male or female, but the one that wasn't what they were born as. Non-binary people (like me) don't really identify with either, and commonly use they/them pronouns (I don't, but I'm a mess).

2. That's massively offensive. I'm acutely aware that I don't appear overly feminine, and the last thing I need is well-meaning people commenting on it

but there are also cisgendered women who appear more masculine than feminine as well

and then there are people who don't mind being somewhere in between, like non-binary women with beards or whatever

i guess i wont try to pinpoint the difference, and i do apologize

it was a very drunk post, i understand it is an insanely nuanced issue and frankly i think im too dumb to understand it all


but also fwiw, i didnt comment on the issue to anyone in person, i thought this thread was meant as an educational thing. like there's a reason cisgendered and transgendered women are distinguished from one another, right? ii dont really get it tbh. like i get that you're all women from a mental perspective


if im apologizing on this account, i hope u understand that its sincere

sorry. i put my foot in my mouth

i think what you meant to say was “wasn’t what they were assigned at birth”

if i understood danielle’s comments correctly (i think i did) transgender fetal development produces mismatched brains and bodies, thus transgender people are born trans, it’s just that we don’t see the brains, and we assign genders per the visible appearances.

accurate language is essential, and its misuse is part of the problem here: to say one was “born” one thing and then “transitions” to another i think mischaracterizes the whole thing, as if it were a mere matter of choice , or caprice, or mere psychology.

ontogeny is a process, not a moment. let’s try to avoid folk notions to explain science.

"passing" is a sensitive subject for transgender men and women. I get "ma'am" 80% of the time, men open doors for me, they look at me with attraction. Still I haven't learned to modify my voice so I can see that flicker in the eye when people realize I'm born male. When I get sir'ed it is upsetting. I like to shoot the shit with people. The owner of a local record store is super nice, I always enjoy talking to him. However he always says "thanks for stopping in man" or something like that. It's getting to the point where I cringe when I walk into the store.

If you see what you know is a man, but they are dressed entirely in women's clothing head to toe, wearing women's accessories and make up. Don't say sir etc. While "dude" is gender neutral these days, most trans girls don't like it.

If you don't know if you should use male or female pronouns, don't use them at all. It's not hard.

I came out in a group chat for one of my classes last night...
...and regretted it waking up this morning. Now I'm scared and anxious and I'm not sure where to go.

but why?

I honestly think I jumped the gun, and I'm not certain enough of myself to start living like this. I'm going to try and talk with that class's teacher (I sent him an email yesterday saying he could start calling me Claire, but I want to retract that).

not sure if this will be useful to you, but here it goes

i‘ve written a bunch of university papers in my life. oodles. millions. well not so many but often you find yourself unable to write on the topic of your choosing (or assignment).

one useful strategy in some cases is to write out the difficulty, meaning: you write about why you can’t write what you want. it’s a little bit like when you say “i’m speechless”. no, you’re not, you’re actually saying “i am...” etc, but you’re stating the difficulty of finding the right words.

so maybe, instead of making clearcut declarations, you can actually discuss how difficult in itself is to make such declarations? in other words, i guess, profess your ambiguity?

i think people could understand and sympathize with that. if there’s something a tormented teenager can understand, it’s torment itself.

okay. like i said, i make no guarantees. but maybe worth considering.

That's pretty good thinking, actually. Just had a talk with said teacher, and one of the school wellbeing people.
The plan is, in tomorrow's class, he'll have a chat to them and basically say (on my behalf) that I'm exploring gender identity, and I've trialled some stuff out, but that I'm not prepared to go any further and that it'd be greatly appreciated if the class kept quiet about it.

I wanna vanish.

don’t vanish. courage is an everyday practice. you got this.

also, btw, i really, but REALLY liked danielle’s series of explanations that started this thread. they were super rational and eye opening. have not heard better actually—not even from academics.

i assume others might like to understand some of those things as well.

and a little cribbing goes a long way. a lotof cribbing, even further. e.g., the wheel, gunpowder, etc., we just copy :p

It happened - it was awkward, it was embarrassing, I don't want to talk to anyone, but it's out there

good—congrats

mandatory applause gif:

What you did, dipping the toe in the water as they say is the only way forward to figuring yourself out. Like, realizing your feelings aren't as clear cut is a step toward figuring them out, if you get me. This has been in your head and now it is on the outside, seen by your peers, being scrutinized by others. That is some major vulnerability.

It would be wonderful to know beforehand exactly what an experience will be like, any new experience in life, but you never know until you are in it.

Everybody coming to terms with something like this is going to wonder if they are really sure they know what they are doing, especially at your age. I was 34 when I transitioned 100% full time. I was in and out of the closet a number of times.

As this settles down, and you get a better understanding of others reactions and perspective of you, you may feel more comfortable about it.

I think what can be difficult is knowing however you present yourself, people will have their own perception. When I was presenting as a guy with clothes I hated, etc, I realized it wasn't any better than my fear of being seen as some sort of "freak" for presenting female. Some people are going to see me as a freak no matter what I do. I'd rather not have to fit into the standard mold just to make that aspect of life slightly easier. Wearing the clothes I want makes me happier. My friends calling me Danielle makes me happier. The real people, the people that matter, will love you no matter what. If someone will only tolerate you as what they want you to be, their opinions are worthless.

must spread more rep

What do you think about people like Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, and their arguments about trans people?

Being true to oneself is the most difficult thing, in this world of mass confusion and forced similarities.

Live your own truth. No one else will do it for you.

Also, please remember that anyone who has a bad reaction to you or your truth, is actually someone who needs to learn, and so do not just write them off completely. Your life and your experience is what alters the mindsets of those around you, especially the ones who are entrenched in false assumptions and misguided hate. Stay strong, do not let their negativity and ignorance get you down.

don;t know the person you refer to, but standard-gendered people talking shit about transgender people is as ignorant and pointless as Catholic Priests giving marriage/relationship advice.

People like her aren't taking shit about trans people. As a guy if an intelligent cis women makes a point about womanhood who am i to dismiss it?

There are lot of prominent feminists who say that trans women are their own thing, and not the same as cis women, the response they get is as if they said trans people are not human.

Curious as to why that is? Is it being able to give birth and the stuff that goes along with it menstruation n stuff? I'm curious and not debating anyside...just here to listen...

Ah man, fucking TERFs.

Basically, a TERF is a trans-exclusionary radical feminist (hence the acronym). It's fairly easy to write off a lot of anti-trans bigotry as just being from ignorant old boomers, but TERFs are different. A lot of their arguments boil down to "trans women aren't real women, and should be excluded from women's spaces". And while - yes, I get that there's a difference; but it's still really fucking painful seeing that trans women are being excluded and vilified based solely on birth.
They'll often call themselves as "gender critical", but the stuff they'll espouse is still pretty clearly biased - "what if there's a penis in a women's restroom???", "won't somebody please think of the children?", etc. They just coat it in a flavouring of "protecting 'real' women", rather than just being openly transphobic. :/

Another angle is that trans women had a previous life as a man, giving them "male privilege", which makes it impossible for them to truly identify with female experience.

Another thing that sucks about being trans: chasers. Men who pursue trans women as a fetishized sexual object. They think all trans women are what they see in male-targeted pornography. Non-persons who only want to be pounded in the ass and guzzle cock. It's SO gross. I've been looking at dating sites and most don't automatically block males. I don't even click on their messages. It's a little trickier IRL. I suppose it's like any other woman. You can't tell if they are being friendly or are after something else. A dude hit on me the other day. I'm a friendly person so I had a conversation, but I don't know how to drop the hint. I need a shirt that says "LESBIAN".

Oh damn, chasers are the fucking worst (at least from my idea about it).

Unlike you, I like guys, so it'll be a challenge trying to find guys who are sweet and caring amongst a midst of guys who are fetishists. Maybe I just need to stick to bisexuals.

I know what TERF means. I don't think any of these people have any kind of anti-trans agenda or are bigots, and frankly I call into question a person born male telling a woman like for example Germaine Greer that they know better about what counts as a woman than she does. Generally the arguements against these people are either ad hominem (e.g. they are old bigots), straw man (e.g. what they are saying appears to be this but is really just cloaked transphobia) or apeals to emotion (we're the victims and it hurts our feelings when people question us).


I'm just sumarising what I see and don't have any particular stake in the argument. Personally I think gender is nonsense and everyone's pronouns should be neutral. And if you have to differentiate (say for medical reasons or whatever) do it by chromosomes, xx or xy (or xxy or xyy).


Also rather than forcing people to cohabit the best solution to the women's toilet issue is to have a three sets of toilets, mens womens & free.

The lived experience of women and girls that men are not part of, basically all the reasons feminism has existed for.

the problem with trusting novelists is that they’re used to spinning a lot of very coherent and believable bullshit which has no basis in reality. a great talent for entertainment—but with no scientific value.

there is a landmark experiment that shows how the language brain will cook up all manner of justifications for absurdities. see: https://physics.weber.edu/carroll/ho...plit_brain.htm

this applies to everyone, including scientificists like lobster-man.

by scientificist i mean those who elevate empirical science to religious status. which isn’t really science, just ideological extrapolation. e.g. social darwinism.

Is this a non-sequiteur posing as an arguement?

choose your fighter

I'm conflicted here - do I bother to try and throw my weight around in an argument that ultimately won't change anything, or do I tap out?

not worth arguing about, IMO. Those particular feminists are wrong, end of discussion

sure you can recognize a meta-argument, yes?

eta: and “birth,” lol

i disagree with ilducio here. while he might have the wiser perspective, yours is the time to be a li’l ferocious and fanatical (just a little, don’t overdo it)

the khmer rouge didn’t select 12 year olds for nothing :D

Eh, I'm not really in the mood for it. Last night I had to explain to a 14 year old on Discord why dysphoria is different to just wishing you were better looking, so :/