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Bytor Peltor 01.12.2015 06:41 PM

"Pop Music"
 
I searched "Pop" and the SYG database returned nothing......

I realize "Pop Music" isn't something the majority of us listen to and some of you down right loath it, but figured there may be room for a little discussion every now and then.

KC had a new song drop today......my buddy who manages / plays / writes for her produced the vocals on her new track, Heartbeat Song
 

Rob Instigator 01.13.2015 09:21 AM

I know some folks on here are big on J-pop, but I do not know if it is done ironically.

EVOLghost 01.18.2015 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
I know some folks on here are big on J-pop, but I do not know if it is done ironically.



Nope. Nakata is a fucking genius. and now you got me started!!!

(perfume)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWoWiqI3aM
Daijyobanai

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhI2mp-WIck
Magic of Love(single version. the album version has an awful intro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th8H34qOk30
Secret Secret

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk3jWsARsX4
Twinkle Snow Powdery Snow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCjcmOR1lT4
Point



(capsule)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sj7LwWt-Qs
Runway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viycVSrrCXk
Jumper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2sFSiaS65E
Control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIcd9BAyJ8g
Go1 Go1 Fine Day

(kyary pamyu pamyu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWWYz_zSi2k
Cherry Bon Bon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivkxpAVVC4
Fashion Monster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LkqHrKeLcU
Kimini 100%

http://youtu.be/teMdjJ3w9iM
Ninjari Bang Bang



(coltemonkha)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoaeIFcbR5U
Communication

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S1_RDPz5_A
Sleeping Girl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvqEOXQYvR0
Fantastic Fantasy

They're all by the same producer....just the girls are different...that is all.


and now I'm probably going to listening to these songs obsewssively again. dammit.,

EVOLghost 01.18.2015 10:48 PM

Oh yes...there's also bandojanaimon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEwEuJY9XS4

I had high hopes for these girls...but they eventually added more girls to their lineup and eventually became something more fabricated. This song has a raw element to it that makes it special. The whole 'we are not a band!'(which is their name) iscool....it's like they want to be a idol group...but can't....though...now they're a full fledged idol group.

evollove 01.19.2015 08:11 AM

About a year ago I realized I knew nothing of contemporary pop so I downloaded some Billboard Top whatevers compilations.

Nicki Manage's "Va Va Voom" was infectious. Katy Perry's "Roar" was good--if I was a 12 year old girl it would've changed my life. Ke$ha is so massively talented it's a drag she can only write about going to the club. I'm sure she sometimes has something else on her mind.

But Frank Ocean's "I've Been Thinking About You" was the only one I would call "good" without qualification.

The biggest problem I had was I simply don't share the same values as the people on the charts. None of it means anything to me, and I would be shocked and saddened if any of it actually meant anything to the "artists."

(Also, according to the charts, there are about 5 or 6 chord sequences left in the world. How on earth everyone isn't suing everyone for plagiarism is beyond me.)

Hey. I tried.

lucyrulesok 01.21.2015 11:43 AM

i really love pop music.

when i was a kid bands like the spice girls and destiny's child were HUGE for me. and not in a 'wow these women are so powerful' bullshit way (like sorry what little kid actually thinks in these terms?????), i just loved the songs and the personas.

when i was a teenager - in the early years i listened a lot to pop radio (the years of craig david etc, the golden years of britney, i loved all that).

then i discovered 'proper' music aged 13 or 14 - that's all i listened to for a while. after discovering sonic youth in 2002 i spent a lot of time on the old board finding out about weird and wonderful music. i didn't listen to much pop music at this time.

then age 15 or 16 i started going out clubbing & to parties, again listening a lot to chart hits (some favorites from that time are kelis, outkast, basically anything produced by neptunes etc etc).

i think years of working with chart radio on (e.g. in warehouses, shops etc) also meant i got to know a lot of the pop music very well. i love an infectious melody and something you can dance to. i'm also interested in trends in pop music like how it is kinda always the same but always changing. i love the personas of pop stars.

recent years i don't listen so much to chart music (since i work in an office and at home i listen to 'proper' music and i don't go out clubbing much these days) but i still listen to a lot of my old favourites. my boyfriend doesn't know anything about pop music so sometimes we get drunk in the kitchen and i play him some pop classics.

chart music is still on my radar though - how could it not be? it's everywhere!

i also love a lot of 'classic' pop like abba. (i see this as pop before my time). and cheesey 80s synth pop.

i think just like anything else chart music goes through phases of appealing to me and not appealing to me with different trends.

SonicBebs 01.31.2015 08:41 AM

My daughters mean I get to listen to a fair amount of pop - especially in the car
I quite like Little Mix and Ellie Golding and Lorde
quite like as in I can listen to them without having the urge to crash the car

My wife likes one direction but im not convinced that it's the music she's into...

louder 01.31.2015 09:15 AM

Beyonce's last album was a masterpiece and had more content than just going to the club.

Blood_Promise 01.31.2015 12:49 PM

after a lot of time spent listening to Prince, every pop song I hear now is futile

Mortte Jousimo 02.01.2015 01:25 AM

After the Beatles no-one has made as great pop, not even Prince. But of course there has been made good pop. For exampe the Cure.

SonicBebs 02.01.2015 06:14 AM

Yeah I keep meaning to listen property to Beyoncé

h8kurdt 02.01.2015 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo
After the Beatles no-one has made as great pop, not even Prince. But of course there has been made good pop. For exampe the Cure.


You're an idiot if you think that's true.

Mortte Jousimo 02.01.2015 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h8kurdt
You're an idiot if you think that's true.

And you are?
If you know better pop songs than this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4yHYbhCDLg

let me know.

_tunic_ 02.01.2015 08:40 AM

my favorite pop is this: Scala & Kolacny Brothers
(from Belgium they are)

btw in plain dutch we call this type of audience klapvee

h8kurdt 02.01.2015 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo
After the Beatles no-one has made as great pop, not even Prince. But of course there has been made good pop. For exampe the Cure.


Quote:

And you are?
If you know better pop songs than this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4yHYbhCDLg

let me know.

Off the top of my head some great pop songs-

Pretty much anything by ABBA
Billie Jean by Michael Jackson
Like a Virgin-Madonna (I'd say Ray of Light is just as good)
Dancing On The Ceiling-Lionel Richie (he sucks, but god that song is just brilliant)
Telephone-Lady Gaga/Beyonce
Put a Ring On It-Beyonce
Toxic-Britney Spears
Where Did Our Love Go-The Supremes
Your Song-Elton John
Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay-Otis Redding
Back in Black-Amy Winehouse
Superstion-Stevie Wonder
Hey Ya-Outkast
Personal Jesus-Depeche Mode
Go Your Own Way-Fleetwood Mac
Crazy-Gnarls Barkley
Umbrella-Rhianna
Rolling In The Deep-Adele
Life's What You Make It-Talk Talk
Somebody I Used To Know-Gotye
Kiss-Prince
Believe-Cher
Call Me Maybe-Taylor Swift
Daft Punk-Get Lucky

And two songs more recently that kill it

Take Me To Church-Hozier
Uptown Funk-Mark Ronson

To reiterate-to make out that the only great pop songs were done by the Beatles is narrow-minded at best, and plain moronic at worst. And I say this loving The Beatles.

evollove 02.01.2015 02:20 PM

If we're talking 60s pop, Burt Bachrach gives the Beatles a run for their money. There's a box set called The Look Of Love: The Burt Bacharach Collection which is a feast of genius pop.

Here are some highlights, with an asterisk next to the "drop what your doing and listen now!" tracks:

* Please Stay - The Drifters
I Wake Up Crying - Chuck Jackson
* Any Day Now (My Wild Beautiful Bird) - Chuck Jackson
* Make It Easy On Yourself - Jerry Butler
I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Tommy Hunt
It's Love That Really Counts (In The Long Run) - The Shirelles
*******!!!!! Don't Make Me Over - Dionne Warwick!!!**** (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEgxuE7WD6U)
Let The Music Play - The Drifters
Anyone Who Had A Heart - Dionne Warwick
Kentucky Bluebird (Send A Message To Martha) - Lou Johnson
My Little Red Book - Manfred Mann
Do You Know The Way To San Jose - Dionne Warwick
This Guy's In Love With You - Herb Alpert

This is on top of all the stuff you probably already know. "I Say a Little Prayer," "Walk on By," "I'll Never Fall In Love Again," etc

Mortte Jousimo 02.02.2015 07:46 AM

Call me narrowminded or anything you want, but I think you have listed here just ordinary pop songs. Most of them are good of course. Bacharach has been a lot better to do catchy melodies than most of today´s pop composers, but that´s all. Strawberry, Eleanor Rigby, Tomorrow Never Knows, Lucy in the Sky with diamonds, a Day In Life, Dear Prudence, Happiness Is a Warm Gun etc. mix art & pop very genius way that no-one had made before and I think hasn´t made after that (at least better than the Beatles).

I don´t understand the tendency to negate the importance of the Beatles. I think also today´s music will sound really different if Beatles has never existed. Or do you think the new Sgt version of Flaming Lips is just a joke from them?

evollove 02.02.2015 08:40 AM

I ain't dissing the Beatles. Just saying Burt at his best makes pop just as catchy and sophisticated. For example: If you know how to count beats, figure out the timing to the chorus of "I Say a Little Prayer." Nothing "ordinary" about that. And his chords are really fucked up in a fascinating way.

And Youtube clips don't do justice to how great his best records sound--he produced his own stuff a lot--so I'm gonna go ahead and say his studio skills can easily compete with George Martin's.

lucyrulesok 02.02.2015 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Off the top of my head some great pop songs-

Pretty much anything by ABBA
Billie Jean by Michael Jackson
Like a Virgin-Madonna (I'd say Ray of Light is just as good)
Dancing On The Ceiling-Lionel Richie (he sucks, but god that song is just brilliant)
Telephone-Lady Gaga/Beyonce
Put a Ring On It-Beyonce
Toxic-Britney Spears
Where Did Our Love Go-The Supremes
Your Song-Elton John
Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay-Otis Redding
Back in Black-Amy Winehouse
Superstion-Stevie Wonder
Hey Ya-Outkast
Personal Jesus-Depeche Mode
Go Your Own Way-Fleetwood Mac
Crazy-Gnarls Barkley
Umbrella-Rhianna
Rolling In The Deep-Adele
Life's What You Make It-Talk Talk
Somebody I Used To Know-Gotye
Kiss-Prince
Believe-Cher
Call Me Maybe-Taylor Swift
Daft Punk-Get Lucky

And two songs more recently that kill it

Take Me To Church-Hozier
Uptown Funk-Mark Ronson

To reiterate-to make out that the only great pop songs were done by the Beatles is narrow-minded at best, and plain moronic at worst. And I say this loving The Beatles.


I agree with all of the above and could add many many more. By the by, I thought that Call Me Maybe was Carly Rae Jepson? No matter it's a good track anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo
Call me narrowminded or anything you want, but I think you have listed here just ordinary pop songs. Most of them are good of course. Bacharach has been a lot better to do catchy melodies than most of today´s pop composers, but that´s all. Strawberry, Eleanor Rigby, Tomorrow Never Knows, Lucy in the Sky with diamonds, a Day In Life, Dear Prudence, Happiness Is a Warm Gun etc. mix art & pop very genius way that no-one had made before and I think hasn´t made after that (at least better than the Beatles).

I don´t understand the tendency to negate the importance of the Beatles. I think also today´s music will sound really different if Beatles has never existed. Or do you think the new Sgt version of Flaming Lips is just a joke from them?


Even if you think the Beatles wrote the best pop songs (contentious to begin with! but a matter of opinion so...) doesn't mean there are no other great pop songs. The Beatles did not exist in a vacuum - while I agree they have had a HUGE impact on modern pop music that does not necessarily mean they are automatically BETTER than the music they have inspired. (It also doesn't necessarily follow that because they have had a lot of influence means they are essentially good or better than other acts).

Of course it all comes down to personal opinion but I think that there has been a lot more interesting pop music than the Beatles. I appreciate it is easy in hindsight to think the Beatles are not that great since now they are so overplayed and imitated. But if you look at the landscape of pop music now I think it is a lot more varied & interesting - yes in part due to the Beatles but I think it would be really churlish to ignore e.g. the influence of hip hop (amongst others!). Speaking of which don't you think it is important to note that four white guys dominate so many people's perspective of music which is rooted in black origins????

just my thoughts on the matter as a lover of non-Beatles pop music ;)

louder 02.02.2015 10:52 AM

amazing pop:

 

h8kurdt 02.02.2015 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucyrulesok
I agree with all of the above and could add many many more. By the by, I thought that Call Me Maybe was Carly Rae Jepson? No matter it's a good track anyway.


Even if you think the Beatles wrote the best pop songs (contentious to begin with! but a matter of opinion so...) doesn't mean there are no other great pop songs. The Beatles did not exist in a vacuum - while I agree they have had a HUGE impact on modern pop music that does not necessarily mean they are automatically BETTER than the music they have inspired. (It also doesn't necessarily follow that because they have had a lot of influence means they are essentially good or better than other acts).

Of course it all comes down to personal opinion but I think that there has been a lot more interesting pop music than the Beatles. I appreciate it is easy in hindsight to think the Beatles are not that great since now they are so overplayed and imitated. But if you look at the landscape of pop music now I think it is a lot more varied & interesting - yes in part due to the Beatles but I think it would be really churlish to ignore e.g. the influence of hip hop (amongst others!). Speaking of which don't you think it is important to note that four white guys dominate so many people's perspective of music which is rooted in black origins????

just my thoughts on the matter as a lover of non-Beatles pop music ;)


 


any my bad on the Taylor Swift fail.

!@#$%! 02.02.2015 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
I searched "Pop" and the SYG database returned nothing......

I realize "Pop Music" isn't something the majority of us listen to and some of you down right loath it, but figured there may be room for a little discussion every now and then.

KC had a new song drop today......my buddy who manages / plays / writes for her produced the vocals on her new track, Heartbeat Song
 


i think a lot of the music we talk about here would qualify as pop but we just don't use the word.

i like a lot of pop but just not what's in the charts these days, as it all sounds the same overprocessed generic shit to me.

regarding kelly clarkson, i recognize she has a good and powerful voice but her music is not my thing. something about the whole aesthetic-- it's really well done & extremely professional but for some reason it grates my ears-- kinda like hollywood movies if i were to compare. but i don't "loathe" her-- she seems good at what she does. like steven spielbeg.

when i'm in the mood for poppy sounds these days my go-to band is stereo total-- i have been listening to them obsessively for the past year maybe. i'll listen to some 70s/ 80s pop too (new wave/synthpop, not madona). i really don't have a pop subgenre of preference. a genre too vast to even try to define. i'd even say "kool thing" is one of my favorite pop tracks, for example. ha ha ha. there. another pop band i love: pixies. also: stereolab. pop is everywhere. pop rock > disco.

lucyrulesok 02.02.2015 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
another pop band i love: pixies.


Yes! what even is pop music?????

Bytor Peltor 02.02.2015 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicBebs
My daughters mean I get to listen to a fair amount of pop - especially in the car
I quite like Little Mix and Ellie Golding and Lorde
quite like as in I can listen to them without having the urge to crash the car

My wife likes one direction but im not convinced that it's the music she's into...



Like Bebes, my daughters help keep me "up to date" with radio pop. Also, my youngest (now 12) takes dance and her company dances to a lot of "pop" music. Yesterday's Super Bowl was about as pop as it gets. I once loathed "performers" who had no backing band. However, I now see there is a nation of Jr. High and High School dancers who love watching dancers, quick changes and there is no doubt the "images" are stunning......just think about all the work / technical aspects of having Katy Perry ride a four story tall lion.

One of my favorite all time pop albums:
 

Turns 30 later this month......

evollove 02.02.2015 07:37 PM

There seems to be some confusion over a "catchy tune" and "pop music." Yeah, the Pixies had some catchy tunes, and may have been influenced by objectively pop artists like Brian Wilson, but the music wasn't meant for a POPular audience. It's too eccentric, even if they did find some mass acceptance in Europe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucyrulesok
Yes! what even is pop music?????


Tough to describe a genre. Pleasing music aimed for a general audience?

What's interesting about pure pop is:

1.) A generation's pop all sounds the same, it all has that "poppy" sound that is tough to describe but everyone knows

and yet

2.) This sound changes now and then. Contemporary pop doesn't sound like 80s pop. I don't think this has anything to do with "musical progress" or "evolving taste." Probably more to do with technology.

And yeah, dancing and light shows are all part of it. The pop machine is meant to please and entertain a large audience, and yes, somewhat talented people work hard to pull this off.

Conceptually this all sounds fun, and maybe sometimes it is, though sometimes the strange values being expressed ruin it for me. But I'm probably just a tightass.

Gonna download the latest Billboard Top 40 and see what's what.

!@#$%! 02.02.2015 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
There seems to be some confusion over a "catchy tune" and "pop music." Yeah, the Pixies had some catchy tunes, and may have been influenced by objectively pop artists like Brian Wilson, but the music wasn't meant for a POPular audience. It's too eccentric, even if they did find some mass acceptance in Europe.


i think you're mixing up pop as a musical genre with music that is popular.

pop as i understand is a form of music which originally derived from rocknroll, follows the same pattern of verse/chorus/verse and but it's "lighter" or "softer" and often more danceable. e.g 80's new wave. since pop is ancient it has had time to blend with and infuse itself into infinite other genres from hiphop to country, r&b, punk, etc. like you said in another part i'm not quoting, it changes with the time.

shit, there was an npr thing about kelly clarkson playing some obscure band's song and how snobs were rejecting it for being kelly clarkson without realizing it was their hipster idols being cover..

while pixies is generally a "rock" band, some pixies songs are so soft and easy listening and happy that to my ears they qualify as pop-- e.g. here comes your man, or velouria. the pixies learned so much from the beatles after all.

i say this about the pixies as a musical thing and not "lyrics."

btw, the first time i heard the pixies was not in a secret cavern with the initiated few but on FM radio. which is why initially i didn't pay them much attention. but after years & years, what's left of them with me is the singsong of it all. it's good fun music to clean the house to or listen to while driving-- not to sit on your sofa with headphones on like you'd listen to a symphony.

here's a puzzle to torment your brain: siouxie and the banshees covering dear prudence by the beatles. wtf genre is it?

evollove 02.03.2015 05:52 AM

^ That is a head scratcher.

Maybe the distinction should be made between "pop" and "poppy?"

Like, Tom Waits is occasionally "jazzy" but no one's gonna confuse him with Thelonius Monk.

I just don't think Pixies and Beyonce play in the same genre, unless we pull back very far and say all music is either pop or not-pop.

God, I wish I was a few years younger so I actually gave a shit about any of this.

!@#$%! 02.03.2015 08:53 AM

because beyonce does pop but is more r&b, no? same as "the king of pop" michael jackson. for my taste the real king of pop is david bowie ha ha ha ha.

i didn't mean that pixies is a "pop band" really in a strict sense. i just meant to challenge the notion that pop is any kind of narrowly circumscribed top-40 genre-- instead it's a big big current in music.

re: tom waits, blues singer, yes genres blend because they're just concepts to box in a messy reality. no?

i think if you look at top-40 popular music today and try o define a historical pop genre backwards from it it's going to be problematic because a lof of influences like hip hop r&b or country or latin or whatever are going to send you in all kinds directions. it's easier if you start in the 50s or whatever and see how it branches out and spins out subgenres.

so pulling back and saying pop/non-pop while being maybe too broad actually makes sense to me.

but anyway the real problem is trying to create neat divisions in what is actually a very fluid reality no?

!@#$%! 02.03.2015 09:25 AM

ps-- i found it, i found it!!

http://www.npr.org/2014/12/02/368013...ce-u-been-gone

evollove 02.03.2015 09:41 AM

^ A comment reads: "Mainstream pop is musical scrapbooking." Interesting idea.

Bytor Peltor 02.03.2015 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
i think you're mixing up pop as a musical genre with music that is popular.



Either as a genre or just as a song that's popular, at some point it must be played on Top 40 radio (which today is more like Top 20)......right???

Speaking of, Pixies......Kelly Clarkson's bass player was once Kim Deal's bass tech and he also recorded and engineered on a couple of Frank Black solo albums.

!@#$%! 02.03.2015 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
^ A comment reads: "Mainstream pop is musical scrapbooking." Interesting idea.


but what music does not collect? and when has it not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Either as a genre or just as a song that's popular, at some point it must be played on Top 40 radio (which today is more like Top 20)......right???


what about the bazillions that try in earnest but just don't chart?

Bytor Peltor 02.03.2015 10:59 AM

^^^same for the millions of one hit wonders......now you hear them and then you don't!

!@#$%! 02.03.2015 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
^^^same for the millions of one hit wonders......now you hear them and then you don't!


right... which is why i'm arguing that pop is a (very) broad genre, rather than popular music (music that charts) per se. sometimes you get stuff charting that is not in the pop genre at all. pop though, it seems, would be manufactured to chart and more likely to do it.

compare:

http://www.bobborst.com/popculture/t...ear/?year=1975

http://www.bobborst.com/popculture/t...ear/?year=2014

and lists:

http://top40.about.com/od/top10lists...ngsalltime.htm

http://www.listology.com/blindsider/...test-pop-songs

very confusing ha ha ha ha

_tunic_ 02.03.2015 12:24 PM

I just read the wiki page about pop music and agree with the following definition:
Quote:

According to Simon Frith pop music is produced "as a matter of enterprise not art", is "designed to appeal to everyone" and "doesn't come from any particular place or mark off any particular taste". It is "not driven by any significant ambition except profit and commercial reward ... and, in musical terms, it is essentially conservative". It is, "provided from on high (by record companies, radio programmers and concert promoters) rather than being made from below ... Pop is not a do-it-yourself music but is professionally produced and packaged"

which means for me that Pixies is not pop. Late Beatles is not pop, early Beatles is

!@#$%! 02.03.2015 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _tunic_
I just read the wiki page about pop music and agree with the following definition:


which means for me that Pixies is not pop. Late Beatles is not pop, early Beatles is


from that perspective, maybe, but from other perspectives on that very same page (e.g pete seeger) then they are all pop. but then by that definition maybe nirvana's "nevermind" is a pop album, as it was crafted professionally to fit sub-pop's requirements. no?

though the post-67 definition as "opposed to rock music" if you see the notes comes from "the oxford companion to music" and im not sure they include the simon firth economic argument. do they?

ETA: does that simon firth definition negate the possibility of indie pop or alt pop???

Bytor Peltor 02.03.2015 01:02 PM

Pete never had truck commercials using his songs like, Bob.

!@#$%! 02.03.2015 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Pete never had truck commercials using his songs like, Bob.

oh i didn't mean he did pop music but if you look at that page pete seeger makes a very broad definition of pop music as having elements from both folk and fine arts music.

Bytor Peltor 02.03.2015 01:11 PM

I read the article......never would have considered Bob "pop," but having a songs featured in a movies and commercials will have that effect!

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 02.03.2015 01:14 PM

 


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