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-   -   Hardcore Punk (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=9138)

porkmarras 12.19.2006 03:57 PM
Hardcore Punk
 
This is probably the worst thing i can think happened to music in a few generations of supposedly 'serious' music fans.As you'll pelt me with bottles and try to sod me in public places,remember that its grime and austerity is as bad as finding a tumor in your genitals.Discuss.

Glice 12.19.2006 04:42 PM
Hardcore: a lot of fun live. Necessarily a musical deadzone (it's modern folk music, and folk music is rarely about anything other than its social aspect). I like hardcore scenes because the music is all the same. I don't like the idea of hardcore archaeology. To me, that seems to miss the point.

porkmarras 12.19.2006 04:50 PM
The actual genre per se doesn't tickle my fancy but it certainly triggered a few attidudes and playing in the american post-punk and such.

Savage Clone 12.19.2006 04:55 PM
Hardcore and punk are both older now than hippie was when punk started, and still position themselves as "edgy," which amuses me to no end, even though I enjoy some of that music a great deal. Most hardcore does pretty much sound exactly the same.

I consider noise to be "modern folk music" every bit as much as punk, perhaps even more so.

porkmarras 12.19.2006 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Clone
Hardcore and punk are both older now than hippie was when punk started, and still position themselves as "edgy," which amuses me to no end, even though I enjoy some of that music a great deal. Most hardcore does pretty much sound exactly the same.

I consider noise to be "modern folk music" every bit as much as punk, perhaps even more so.
That's a very american stance.I consider an enourmous amount of electronic music to be folk music by now.Disco is,Christ!,stuff that i would be totally comfortable playing at funerals by now.

Glice 12.19.2006 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Clone
Hardcore and punk are both older now than hippie was when punk started, and still position themselves as "edgy," which amuses me to no end, even though I enjoy some of that music a great deal. Most hardcore does pretty much sound exactly the same.

I consider noise to be "modern folk music" every bit as much as punk, perhaps even more so.

This post got my 'overbearing intellectual wanker' organ throbbing, but I'm far too tired to grace you with my thoughts. My ideas are resting on the fact that noise can only be folk contingent to hardcore/ late-20th century malaises, ergo, its content is mired in its context, it doesn't say anything at all about its people without several modifying contexts.

Savage Clone 12.19.2006 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glice
This post got my 'overbearing intellectual wanker' organ throbbing, but I'm far too tired to grace you with my thoughts. My ideas are resting on the fact that noise can only be folk contingent to hardcore/ late-20th century malaises, ergo, its content is mired in its context, it doesn't say anything at all about its people without several modifying contexts.


It says quite a lot about the young people of its generation, and it is even more accessible than punk in its immediacy and availability to people with no formal musical training. That is what I was talking about. DJ'ing, same thing in this framework.

Glice 12.19.2006 05:23 PM
I think they're folk practices but not folk musics. The music itself needs content to rise above its function, surely?

porkmarras 12.19.2006 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glice
This post got my 'overbearing intellectual wanker' organ throbbing, but I'm far too tired to grace you with my thoughts. My ideas are resting on the fact that noise can only be folk contingent to hardcore/ late-20th century malaises, ergo, its content is mired in its context, it doesn't say anything at all about its people without several modifying contexts.
Well,Noise as a genre bites its own tail by habit and sound.It could never stand a chance to start with and it wont unless it starts(and it has,it has) to co-exist with other musics.Wrong?

porkmarras 12.19.2006 05:27 PM
Sorry,co-exist peacefully,i meant.

porkmarras 12.19.2006 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by porkmarras
Sorry,co-exist peacefully,i meant.
Wrong,bollocks.Think again.

king_buzzo 12.20.2006 03:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by porkmarras
This is probably the worst thing i can think happened to music in a few generations of supposedly 'serious' music fans.As you'll pelt me with bottles and try to sod me in public places,remember that its grime and austerity is as bad as finding a tumor in your genitals.Discuss.

ergh, no?

ZEROpumpkins 12.20.2006 04:09 AM
Husker Du, anyone? I know i'm in...

sonicl 12.20.2006 04:26 AM
I wouldn't classify Husker Du as hardcore. Hardcore has nowhere near enough tolerance of musical experimentation to allow them into its ranks.

Similarly, I wouldn't consider Minutemen to be hardcore either.

sonicl 12.20.2006 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swa(y)
as far as actual "music" is concerned, no, hardcore was nothing special by any means.

but, even though "underground networking/trading/etc." had already existed for sometime, i think hardcore totally brought it to another level.

it was totally by/for/and about the kids (not that there werent "older" participants, they just werent so popular in this community). it gave them a voice, and an outlet making it possible for that voice to be heard.

KIDS starting their own labels, zines, records, album art...it was kinda a big deal. i think more serious musicians have followed in this path since...musicians that were probally inspired by these DIY ethics, even if their music did not sound the same.
I think I'd better log off for a while, swa(y) and I are agreeing on things :)

21stCenturyDigitalJeff 12.20.2006 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Clone
Hardcore and punk are both older now than hippie was when punk started, and still position themselves as "edgy," which amuses me to no end, even though I enjoy some of that music a great deal. Most hardcore does pretty much sound exactly the same..

If you look what hardcore turned into with bands like Refused, Botch and Converge you'll see how diffrent hardcore bands can sound

But you have to listen to it, its like people who don't listen to Jazz will say all Jazz sounds the same ... same with Classical, or Noise or any other genre diffrent then what your use to

compulsive diarrhea, jico 12.20.2006 08:38 AM
i've never heard the dead kennedys... should i?

sonicl 12.20.2006 08:38 AM
I dunno. Listen to some and then tell us what you think.

compulsive diarrhea, jico 12.20.2006 08:50 AM
ok then... i've found the fresh fruit lp for €15 so... i might give it a try

!@#$%! 12.20.2006 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by porkmarras
This is probably the worst thing i can think happened to music in a few generations of supposedly 'serious' music fans.As you'll pelt me with bottles and try to sod me in public places,remember that its grime and austerity is as bad as finding a tumor in your genitals.Discuss.

on that note, i watched "american hardcore" this past weekend, and, as a friend put it, it came across as a "nostalgia movie". however it featured great footage of bad brains.

didn't the hippies used to do the same? except that the woodstock movie was much better.

anyway i don't mind, it's not the end-all be-all, but it was an important movement & all considering what other shit was going around...

idol worshipping sucks, however, and so does nostalgia.

btw porkie, have you listened to much pre-reggae bad brains? they were musically what all other hardcore bands could not be-- i mean real musicians :D


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