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!@#$%! 09.14.2016 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenlight
what? maybe he was wary of a military solution but he did support decision invading Iraq. after his departure from the State Department, Powell repeatedly emphasized his continued support for American involvement in the Iraq war.

no. powell was the #1 proponent of the military doctrine that has his name-- THE POWELL DOCTRINE. roughly it stands for going for clear objectives, with overwhelming force, and a clear exit strategy.

but he was at the state department not DOD. rumsfeld had the DOD and he
-manufactured the objectives
-fielded insufficient force that made it impossible to pacify the country
-had the idea of a perpetual colony in iraq. look at the embassy they built.

once the war is on, of course everyone has to "support the troops" but powell was fed bullshit and had massive disagreements with the rumsfeld camp that are well documented

greenlight 09.14.2016 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Russia is laughing at Trump because they can see through the smoke screen. the geopolitical tensions between Russia and US are so complex that no "reset" like Obama tried or no Trumpisms are going to make for some kind of instant fix. there are way to many uncontrollable parameters in play, Putin knows this, US knows this, even Trump knows this. its his braindead jingoistic "constituents" who seem to be so gullible, which is no small irony considering that just two decades ago most of them were rabid anti-Russians!



I do not think so. Russia would welcome warm relations with US. it is a smoke screen sold by mainstream media that Russia is "laughing". yeah, geopolitical tensions are tense and complex I agree, especially while NATO is expanding and military bases are being build all around. it is just that Russia wont submit to let "America in" since Putin is president just want to be sovereign nation and obviously America doesn't like it and that goes for any other nation in the world who wants to be sovereign. it is like automaticly you are becoming an enemy to States. and that Krimea, it was always Russian and also most of the people living there are russians. there was referendum which followed a parliamentary vote in which 78 out of 100 of Crimea's parliamentarians voted in favour of Crimea seceding from Ukraine.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 09.14.2016 06:15 PM

you work for RT or nah?

Russia has conflicting economic and political interests with US in AT LEAST two dozen nations. Russia doent want "warm relations" with US, Russia is not the kind of government or society that gives any fucks about feelings. Russia and Russians care about their bottom line, and Americanvbottom line is in conflict with Russia in many ways.

oh yeah, if Ukrainians wanted annexation why all the dead people?

The Soup Nazi 09.14.2016 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
the geopolitical tensions between Russia and US are so complex that no "reset" like Obama tried [...]


Incidentally, on that first official meeting, HRC gave Sergei Lavrov a "reset button" (kinda like those "alarm buttons" or "nuclear attack" buttons you see in cartoons) to symbolize the start of a new era (didn't happen, I know). The button had the word "reset" in English and Russian...

 


...except somebody at the State Department fucked up: "peregruzka" actually means "overcharge". Lavrov told Hillary, but they both pressed the button anyway. So no whining now, Russia! :D

The Soup Nazi 09.14.2016 06:27 PM

Incidentally, Episode II: While researching the anecdote above, check out what Google suggested for "hillary":

 

dead_battery 09.14.2016 06:28 PM

rumsfeld stood in front of the press and said "la la la its not happening the looting is not happening the violence is not happening i havent seen it" noone called him on it. this is because jean baudrillard is a post modern solipsist and we anglo americans believe in EMPIRICAL REALITY unlike the goddamn french. speaking of which who said that iraq would turn into isisland? oh yes another goddamn reality denying frenchman. and who stood in front of the twin towers in the 70's and said the only force capable of defeating them was islam? yeah same FRENCH guy. thank the AMERIKAN god for the baghdad mcdonalds and milton friedman statue that rumsfeld PROMISED AND DELIVERED in REALITY not his goddamn imagination.

greenlight 09.14.2016 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
oh yeah, if Ukrainians wanted annexation why all the dead people?


you mean dead russian people in origin living in that part of Ukraine killed by mostly Ukrainian army yeah?

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 09.14.2016 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenlight
you mean dead russian people in origin living in that part of Ukraine killed by mostly Ukrainian army yeah?


Yet that is not all the dead people now is it, wars always have two sides. i don't sip US kool aid, i don't sip Russian kool aid, you might try doing the same

The Soup Nazi 09.14.2016 06:49 PM

From The Huffington Post:

Quote:

Congrats, Media. You Just Got Trump’d
How did we get here?

 


I thought we had reached rock bottom. But we had oh so much lower to go. Cue the music, because we have CNN BREAKING NEWS!

That’s right! After saying he would give medical records to Dr. Oz, Trump’s campaign said, this morning, that he wouldn’t. That caused a lot of “Breaking News” graphics on CNN and general media hysteria. But, now, Donald Trump changed his mind again. If that isn’t worth breaking news coverage, I don’t know what is.

Hey, remember that bombshell story from Newsweek’s Kurt Eichenwald, today, about the inextricable financial ties to foreign governments and criminals Trump has, through the Trump Organization?

Forget it! We have breaking news about Donald Trump giving medical records to Dr. Oz when he said he wouldn’t.

And what did he apparently give to Dr. Oz?

A one-page summary of his physical, without giving any access to his exam records.

In short, nothing useful.

Junk.

Yet, look at the initial headlines, regarding this one-pager release:

Trump shares results from physical exam on ‘Dr. Oz Show’” - The Hill

Donald Trump reveals medical results during Dr. Oz taping” - ABC Action News

“Trump Flips Again, Gives Medical Document to Dr. Oz” - Daily Beast

Seeing those headlines, you’d think Donald Trump actually put out material that a doctor could use to really gain insight into someone’s health, not a worthless one-pager that gives no new insight into his health.

Maybe we could find out more by interviewing a totally objective person, who was in the audience of the show.

 

Yeah, this guy looks legit objective

Yes, CNN interviewed this guy to give them a no-BS assessment of what happened during the Dr. Oz taping. He said things like “Dr. Oz was very impressed” and that he was really proud of Trump’s “transparency.”

Really.

How did we get here?

Well, Trump played the media perfectly. Perfectly.

Like the contractors he’s scammed time and time again, Donald Trump made a deal with Dr. Oz. He would release his medical records to Dr. Oz, and discuss parts of them, on air.

He let the show go and promote the hell out of it. Media waited with bated breath.

Then, just like he did with contractors who helped build his developments, he reneged. No health records. Take it or leave it.

What’s Dr. Oz supposed to do? He just put everything he had into promoting this show. People are tuning in. It is too late to scrap the program. Just like contractors, he was stuck. He had to take what Trump was offering.

Likewise, the news media now had been following this Dr. Oz appearance like LeBron James was a free agent, looking for a new team, again.

They invested all they had in following this story. They couldn’t bail either. In fact, this new development made everything more exciting. What was going on? First he said he would release records to Dr. Oz. Now he says he isn’t!

Finally, the coup de grāce. Trump releases something after all. No matter that it is a worthless one-page summary. It was a drip of water for a parched media, aching for any info Trump was willing to give them.

“Donald Trump surprises Dr. Oz with results of recent physical” - CNN.com

Huzzah! The benevolent Donald Trump came through for us, after all! He surprised us with a gift!

And there you go. Segment after segment, and two news cycles down the drain, following the journey of Trump to Oz.

I don’t need an exam ― or even a BS one-pager ― to explain why it’s sickening.

greenlight 09.14.2016 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
you work for RT or nah?

Russia has conflicting economic and political interests with US in AT LEAST two dozen nations. Russia doent want "warm relations" with US, Russia is not the kind of government or society that gives any fucks about feelings. Russia and Russians care about their bottom line, and Americanvbottom line is in conflict with Russia in many ways.



so it is even. they have their geopolitical interests as well and fights for what they think they are entitled to. same like Americans.. doesn't mean they do not want have warm relations. it is seems like American government doesnt want warm relations more. it Russia, Russia, Russia responsible for everything bad what happens these days, bit like overhyped. I am not working for RT (haha), but I do check Russian news sometime and they are not so anti American). I have nothing against you, it is just I have that feeling like there's still that post cold war programming in America, but I am not wondering why.

yeah, it is so complicated. and in the end it is one big scam on us (as in people).

greenlight 09.14.2016 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dead_battery
milton friedman

capitalism and freedom all the way....

greenlight 09.14.2016 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Yet that is not all the dead people now is it, wars always have two sides. i don't sip US kool aid, i don't sip Russian kool aid, you might try doing the same


in Donbass region? mostly.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 09.14.2016 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenlight
so it is even. they have their geopolitical interests as well and fights for what they think they are entitled to. same like Americans..


i am as critical of American foreign policy as Russia's, both sides are wrong in many ways.


Quote:

doesn't mean they do not want have warm relations.
when so many of those interests are competing that is exactly what it means and like i said Russia isn't known for its feelings. it hasn't been called The Bear for a thousand years because its in touch with its emotions ;)

Quote:


it is seems like American government doesnt want warm relations more. it Russia, Russia, Russia responsible for everything bad what happens these days, bit like overhyped.

while the media hype is obviously a textbook example of American deflecting, again, when the interests of both nations are in conflict its not surprising. after all, its not like in Russia their media portrays America as a great ally either.


Quote:

I am not working for RT (haha), but I do check Russian news sometime and they are not so anti American). I have nothing against you, it is just I have that feeling like there's still that post cold war programming in America, but I am not wondering why.


i am an Orthodox Christian, i obviously have a lot of respect and appreciation for Russia and Russian people. but i am also critical of corruption, militarism, and shady black ops arms running, drug dealing, and interfering in international politics. so yeah, i am hyper critical of both MY OWN COUNTRY AND RUSSIA who are both equally the worst offenders at all of the above.

Quote:

yeah, it is so complicated. and in the end it is one big scam on us (as in people).

yes there is a lot of nudge nudge wink wink shit going on, but Putin is a total fucker and is as guilty of it as anyone and frankly it PISSES me off to see so many people supporting his bullshit.

its a total false narrative and false dichotomy, this "America bad, Putin good" shit i encounter very frequently in recent years. as i mentioned, i am an Orthodox Christian so i encounter this a lot

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 09.14.2016 09:01 PM

especially with this total clusterfuck in Syria where supposedly Putin is a hero for sending Russia air strikes to kill many thousands of Syrian civilians.

d.sound 09.14.2016 09:22 PM

"Is Trump really a serious contender for the Republican nomination?"

up until now i really didn't think so. now that hillary shot herself in the foot i don't know anymore. there was a conspiracy she was seriously ill. she finds out she is seriously ill - and then doesn't immediately hold a press conference! she had to have known this was going to leak. instead of saying she did it because she was still deciding how to break it, she says she didn't think it was relevant. all she had to do was come out immediately and say "it turns out i have pneumonia, but i believe i'm the better candidate for office so i'm going to carry on and fight!" people would feel sorry for her and respect her resolve.
aand she says nearly a quarter of americans are sexist, racist, xenophobic and islamiphobic. funny thing is, she's right. the news pundits say the same thing every night. but she shouldn't say it. it was a dumb gaffe. you are trying to win over trump supporters, not alienate them.

I think the liberals should put forth their own conspiracy theory: donald trump infected clinton with pneumonia. crazy thing is i can actually see that happening.
in the smoke filled room:
"that giulliani conspiracy theory is great! we need more!" ... "wait, i've got an idea - what if it were true?"
"let's slip something into her water! but what?"
"let's give her pneumonia! it'll knock her on her ass, but with today's medicine probably won't kill her. but it did kill william henry harrelson in office so people will go apeshit!"
"brilliant!"

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 09.14.2016 09:38 PM

yeah Overlord Hillary definitely slipped on a banana peel on this pneumonia BUT like i said, it won't improve any of Trump's numbers in one bit. too many Republicans on the street have already said they will vote for Hillary Clinton and anyone who has lived in America for long enoughncan see just how radical that statement is. GOP and the Clintons are mortal enemies. that Trump is so toxic that any let alone many Republicans will vote for her is a monumental political shift. frankly its unbelievable but yet its totally understandable

!@#$%! 09.14.2016 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
yeah Overlord Hillary definitely slipped on a banana peel on this pneumonia BUT like i said, it won't improve any of Trump's numbers in one bit. too many Republicans on the street have already said they will vote for Hillary Clinton and anyone who has lived in America for long enoughncan see just how radical that statement is. GOP and the Clintons are mortal enemies. that Trump is so toxic that any let alone many Republicans will vote for her is a monumental political shift. frankly its unbelievable but yet its totally understandable

per today's washington post i recall from this morning trump was even with hillary in ohio and up by 5 in florida

huffpo reports polls having trump ahead in ohio by 5 and florida by 3 (bloomberg & cnn)

in the immortal words of yogi berra--- remember france at the euros

evollove 09.15.2016 07:16 AM

The wise ones are mentally preparing for a Trump win.

Worst case: we'll be wrong.

!@#$%! 09.15.2016 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
The wise ones are mentally preparing for a Trump win.

Worst case: we'll be wrong.


chris cillizza is no slouch when it comes to analyzing horse races

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...the-2016-race/

apatheia ftw

or atharaxia when possible

ilduclo 09.15.2016 10:30 AM

nah, I'm betting on Clinton. I think the Trumpo momentum has reached it's apogee. Anyone on for a bet?

!@#$%! 09.15.2016 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo
nah, I'm betting on Clinton. I think the Trumpo momentum has reached it's apogee. Anyone on for a bet?

i don't like playing with money-- i'd rather sock it away for the alpacalypse next to my gold ingots

bytor peltor bets a lot though-- in sports at least

maybe ask him

ilduclo 09.15.2016 10:36 AM

 

!@#$%! 09.15.2016 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo
 

nah, really, i'll match you in a boxing ring no problem, but i don't treat money like a toy anymore--it's a philosophical choice

how about 3 rounds though? first to hit the mat loses.

!@#$%! 09.15.2016 10:52 AM

WAIT WAIT I HAVE AN IDEA

we can bet-- but the one who loses eats their shoe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGcWTIWYDMQ

ilduclo 09.15.2016 11:28 AM

what's your weight class?

!@#$%! 09.15.2016 11:31 AM

in the best condition i could make middleweight but i'm definitely on the heavy category now ha ha ha

Drjohnrock 09.15.2016 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
The wise ones are mentally preparing for a Trump win.

Worst case: we'll be wrong.



I'm curious, evollve. The Basket of Deplorables and their fascist idol were in your town last night. Did you dare enter their hellish chamber?

evollove 09.15.2016 01:14 PM

There was a protest I was invited to. But bad weather. Plus I'm lazy. Today, I regret not going. But Hillary should be here in a few weeks. Might be fun to protest that, just for the sake of protesting, which is more fun than applauding.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 09.15.2016 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo
nah, I'm betting on Clinton. I think the Trumpo momentum has reached it's apogee. Anyone on for a bet?

i hope we can find some dumbass to take the bet because i also have my money on not even merely Clinton simply anyone not Trump. Hell, Mitt Romney could replace Overlord Hillary for the democrats and thump Trump by a million votes ;)

!@#$%! 09.15.2016 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
i hope we can find some dumbass to take the bet

go to a drumpf rally and likely you'll find many takers

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 09.15.2016 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
go to a drumpf rally and likely you'll find many takers

honestly i doubt that even they actually believe they can win

!@#$%! 09.15.2016 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
honestly i doubt that even they actually believe they can win

if they didn't, they wouldn't be trying

also, if they lose they'll claim "the polls were rigged!"

nobody here i think (except greenlight) would put money on a trump victory, but on some sort of spread i'd bet that trump will come safely within 4 points of hillary in the popular vote, likely 2 when all is said and done, and could get as close as .5% with more goebbels techniques like the ones pointed out by soup nazi

i mean, the fucker could conceivable win-- i'm not gonna put money on him, actually or hypothetically, but like i said, in russian roulette it's only a 1 in 6 chance of blowing your head off, so, the danger remains extreme.

demonrail666 09.15.2016 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
honestly i doubt that even they actually believe they can win


Maybe but that could be because they overestimate the commitment of the Hillary camp. I do predict Clinton to win but Trumps supporters will come out and vote en masse. I'm not sure Clinton's support will do the same.

There are parallels with the Brexit/Remain vote. Even those leading the brexit campaign conceded defeat on the night but it turns out many of those who said in polls they were voting remain, never bothered to on the day. 73% of 18-24 voted remain, but only 36% actually voted. The core Brexit vote was 50plus, and they had a roughly 80% turnout.

Obviously not saying Clinton only appeals to youth or that Trump only attracts the middle aged but they are seen as appealing to one far more than the other.

I do still think she'll win but if I had to rely on one candidates core support to come out as a block, it'd be Trumps.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 09.15.2016 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666
Maybe but that could be because they overestimate the commitment of the Hillary camp. I do predict Clinton to win but Trumps supporters will come out and vote en masse. I'm not sure Clinton's support will do the same.

There are parallels with the Brexit/Remain vote. Even those leading the brexit campaign conceded defeat on the night but it turns out many of those who said in polls they were voting remain, never bothered to on the day. 73% of 18-24 voted remain, but only 36% actually voted. The core Brexit vote was 50plus, and they had a roughly 80% turnout.

Obviously not saying Clinton only appeals to youth or that Trump only attracts the middle aged but they are seen as appealing to one far more than the other.

I do still think she'll win but if I had to rely on one candidates core support to come out as a block, it'd be Trumps.

but that is the thing. Clinton DOESN'T have the "young vote", the core of here base are middle aged white people

and i get it btw, in any other election or candidate i wouldn't be so dismissing. indeed last year i am on record here saying the next president would be a "rich, elitist white man Republican" BUT Trump is too toxic to take advantage of all the racist backlash created by Obama presidency.

!@#$%! 09.15.2016 03:28 PM

low turnout elections favor republicans though, as you know from midterms

sure, trump isn't a traditional "republican", and a portion of the establishment has turned against him, but the biggest mistake in any conflict is to underestimate your opponent. fortunately you're not the one running hillary's campaign or she'd be chasing trump by now

and we still have the debates to go-- fuck knows what will come of them. benito has already been trashing hillary's readiness and continuing with the attacks on her health.

dead_battery 09.15.2016 04:00 PM

democracy is a goddamn blackmail

you better vote for one of us we might murder less middle eastern civilians than the other its all up to you

nuke the planet

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 09.15.2016 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
low turnout elections favor republicans though, as you know from midterms

sure, trump isn't a traditional "republican", and a portion of the establishment has turned against him, but the biggest mistake in any conflict is to underestimate your opponent. fortunately you're not the one running hillary's campaign or she'd be chasing trump by now

and we still have the debates to go-- fuck knows what will come of them. benito has already been trashing hillary's readiness and continuing with the attacks on her health.

because you know the threats of what would be the oldest person inaugurated president carry a lot of weight when talking about health and longevity.

also low turn out cuts both ways, Republicans are even less enthusiastic about Trump than Democrats are about Overlord Hillary.

The Soup Nazi 09.15.2016 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Republicans are even less enthusiastic about Trump than Democrats are about Overlord Hillary.


True story. The latest poll I read about this said that among HRC voters 60% support Hillary because they dig her, and 40% do it because Donaldo gives 'em the heebie-jeebies. Virtually the exact opposite happens with Drumpf: 40% will vote for him because they love his putridity, while 60% would rather cut off their own dicks before having Clinton as president.

So, if you're twisted enough, you could conclude that Never Hillary > Never Trump...

!@#$%! 09.15.2016 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
because you know the threats of what would be the oldest person inaugurated president carry a lot of weight when talking about health and longevity.


trump is bloated, so he looks unwrinkled, and also he gives off "youthfulness" aura with melania on his arm. plus he's full of bluster and takes meds for "high energy," so it's not what he is (old, bloated, rambling, cardiac) but what he projects to the uninformed (rich, powerful, high energy, speaks his mind) that counts.

the other part soup nazi already gave you a good reply

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 09.15.2016 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
trump is bloated, so he looks unwrinkled, and also he gives off "youthfulness" aura with melania on his arm. plus he's full of bluster and takes meds for "high energy," so it's not what he is (old, bloated, rambling, cardiac) but what he projects to the uninformed (rich, powerful, high energy, speaks his mind) that counts.

the other part soup nazi already gave you a good reply


sure but 70 is 70 no matter how the cake is sliced. sometimes i think you put too much into optics and gossip BUT then i remember you love politics so i get your alarm

i do find the age of these candidates and including Bernie Sanders who was popular for a time to reflect the growing gerantocracy in American life. Old people have more power than ever, its hilarious frankly hence my Kurt Cobain dinosaur comments which seem more and more literally true every day!


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