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-   -   iPad makes Kindle a non-thing kind of (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=87717)

Severian 02.13.2013 09:02 PM

iPad makes Kindle a non-thing kind of
 
I bought an iPad recently;mostly because I love my iPhone and my old MacBook and made the mistake of saying so in the apple store. So a thousand dollars later I'm finding myself with not a whole lot of uses for the thing...allowing it to sit in its packaging for a couple weeks, and taking it out here and there to do whatever I'd been doing on my phone only, well..bigger.
Finally I'm giving the thing some attention and I downloaded a "Kindle" app recently just to see what it would offer me. I wasn't expecting much, but with a quick free download you can basically just get a kindle on your iPad/iPad mini/iPhone. Instant access to your amazon cloud, all your purchased kindle books, and all of the kindle library. The only thing you can't do apparently is jump directly from book viewing to the Amazon store in general. But guess what does do that? The Internet.
Honestly, I see no reason for the Kindle to even exist as a hardware product at all if they're going to make it this easy to have one without having to spend your money on a good e-reader that sucks at everything else.

I mention this only because I've seen a number of people talk about buying them on SYG, but I cannot seem to recall which thread/threads. If you don't already have one, you'll probably end up being talked into one of the fancy pants new HD ones; and if so, you will be wasting $500 for a crap proprietary system with two uses, when $399 could have bought on an iPad mini.

I mention it also because I have purchased no less than 3 kindles over the years, and while they're nice for reading, I'm still glaring at the lonely fuckers as THEY sit and gather dust ... Until the next shiny thing grabs my attention of course.

Keeping It Simple 02.14.2013 01:09 PM

I was thinking along those lines quite recently, funnily enough. I felt the same when I purchased my first ever smartphone. Why bother buying a digital camera, mp3 player and handheld console when my smartphone is designed to function as all three of the above devices perfectly adequately? That's what I love about devices like smartphones and tablets, they're multifunctional devices that have thankfully done away with single function devices that just cluttered the place and cost you unnecessary expense and bother.

!@#$%! 02.14.2013 01:31 PM

i almost bought a kindle last december but ended up not doing it for fear it would quickly turn into a piece of plastic junk. good to hear maybe i did the right thing (sez you).

i got a kindle app in the macbook but frankly the one on the phone is too small to read comfortably for a long period. okay to check a reference maybe, or for a couple of minutes while waiting in line somewhere, but that's that. of course one could get a magnifying glass like this:

 


the ipad--- have considered, but haven't jumped in yet, prefering to save for a macbook air when they revamp. so far i read books in the computer just fine. plus the keyboard allows for easy copypaste/notes/quotes/pseudoacademic work. and while apps are convenient, i love the versatility of a keyboarded machine.

i suppose if i spent more time in trains/planes/taxicabs priorities would change making an ipad more desirable for me, but the phone and computer satisfy plenty at this point. i really don't know what i could use it for except read books but for that alone a kindle is more cost effective. hello recursive thought loop.

now, gotta say, with kindle cloud you don't even need the kindle app-- it opens up right on your browser.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Severian
I love my iPhone


haaa haaa haaaa. toldja.

evollove 02.14.2013 02:20 PM

$79 for a Kindle.

I loaded it up thanks to torrenting.

I have enough material to last the rest of my life.

What's your prob?

!@#$%! 02.14.2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
$79 for a Kindle.

I loaded it up thanks to torrenting.

I have enough material to last the rest of my life.

What's your prob?


at first glance no problem! i thought, "hm, kindle good...!" then i notice you loaded it up "thanks to" torrenting. which is kinda sucky for writers. deja-vu, have we had this conversation before? but anyway, yeah. a dime here a dollar there it adds up for your favorite authors and their publishers (same goes for musicians and their need for day jobs and lack of health insurance, etc.)

floatingslowly 02.14.2013 02:39 PM

I wish that I could trade in "real" books for the e-variety. As it is, I'm being forced to liquidate my (once) large collection, in hopes of a pittance. Books are in even less demand than cd's...

That said, my Retina Display makes me genki.

Rob Instigator 02.14.2013 02:43 PM

My wife and I are moving this weekend, and half our boxes are books and records. Jesus.

tesla69 02.14.2013 02:48 PM

I got a Kindle last year as gift, but I only use it as an inventory of my postcard collection to bring to shows with me. I have little interest in reading a screen for hours on end.

there is a corporate trend to ipads but i see it as gimmick, technofetishism. Yeah you can slip it in your pocket but so what, at the end of the day you're still looking at 4x6 screen. Much better on my laptop. There seems to be a movement away from computers to more passive (receiver only) platforms. All I know is I can't create access databases and Excel macros on a fucking tablet screen keyboard. its bs.

At my job they expect to be conducting video conferencing on ipad within the year.

tablets are in line with MS and Amazon obsession to get you on their virutal systems -

floatingslowly 02.14.2013 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tesla69
I only use it as an inventory of my postcard collection to bring to shows with me.

you, sir, are an enigma.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 02.14.2013 04:20 PM

Lame.
 


Nothing beats vellum yo ;)

evollove 02.14.2013 05:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This is about a third of my collection. Therefore:

-There is no Kindle vs physical book battle

-The industry owes me a few free books. And a blow job.

!@#$%! 02.14.2013 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
This is about a third of my collection. Therefore:

-There is no Kindle vs physical book battle

-The industry owes me a few free books. And a blow job.


ha ha, that's kinda like saying that a millionaire is allowed to steal a little extra to supplement his millions & the world owes him a blowjob. okay.

(there's tons of free books already from various legitimate sources btw)

just wanted to put the idea out there that piracy hurts real people, especially the people we supposedly admire. it's easy to call it "the industry" but behind that cop-out term there's an artist collecting royalties every time you watch a movie, buy a book, play a song.

i say this having pirated plenty, so you know, i'm not a cop, or a saint, but i think these days, with the wide availability and low cost of digital media, even through public libraries, and with the ability to even lend your electronic books to friends, piracy is no longer a democratizing way to make restricted information accessible to all, but rather just plain thievery, at this point.

but eh, just sayin'.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 02.14.2013 06:59 PM

piracy of literature definitely hurts the artists. piracy of music much less. artists just don't make that much money on selling records, and besides of which, most people who download STILL end up making a legit purchase, as well as going to shows. Besides, what about tape trading? Giving a friend a burned copy of an album to introduce it to them? Many shades of gray here. But I agree completely with piracy of books, stealing of books, and generally not buying of books, because writers make shit for money and their work is so great!

!@#$%! 02.14.2013 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
artists just don't make that much money on selling records

great-- so now they can make even less!

cmon, that argument doesn't hold water. music is as wonderful as books and as anything else-- tv shows, whatever. there's no excuse.

seriously, napster made up for the death of radio at the hands of the clearchannels; now that you can access anything anywhere, and there's a viable economic model for digital music, there's no need moral argument to thieve.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 02.14.2013 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
great-- so now they can make even less!

cmon, that argument doesn't hold water. music is as wonderful as books and as anything else-- tv shows, whatever. there's no excuse.

seriously, napster made up for the death of radio at the hands of the clearchannels; now that you can access anything anywhere, and there's a viable economic model for digital music, there's no need moral argument to thieve.


Yes but the music industry robs artists WAY more than downloading ever could and bands have other revinue sources (touring, merchandising) that authors just might not have ;)


I think that the term "thieve" is disingenuous and emotionally loaded. So when a band leaks their album or streams it or gives out MP3s are they robbing themselves? And again, what about tape trading and sharing burned CDs? I agree that piracy in these sense of downloading or redistributing for profit as being morally wrong, and indeed being thievery, but not necessarily downloading free music from a music blog, or some torrent files. I think as with many issues of law, the matter of intent is the crucial difference.

But we are free to disagree here, this is just my opinion.

keep poppin pimples 02.14.2013 08:25 PM

you guys should get that smartphone app with a book price database. there are dorks who make a living going around to thrift stores and scanning everything to sell online.

seems like a good idea if you have a huge collection to ditch

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 02.14.2013 08:44 PM

not to mention keeping alive more obscure modernish literature :)

evollove 02.15.2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
piracy of literature definitely hurts the artists. piracy of music much less.


????

Never heard this. J'accuse you of making shit up. Do you know what the average royalty is for an ebook sold--that is, how much actually gets to the author? No? Then what are you talking about?

Book publishers suck as much demon-dick as record companies. Sorry, but true.

Rob Instigator 02.15.2013 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keep poppin pimples
you guys should get that smartphone app with a book price database. there are dorks who make a living going around to thrift stores and scanning everything to sell online.

seems like a good idea if you have a huge collection to ditch


I hate those fuckers! The Houston Public Library has a sale each year where they get rid of tons and tons of books, at very good prices. I go and load up. There are always a few people who just scan each book and toss it into a large bin or a wagon, so they can sell it later. Fuckers! The antithesis of book browsing!

evollove 02.15.2013 09:29 AM

^

Yes! The reason I have so many books is because the local library has a huge monthly sale. And those fuckers are always there, taking up space scanning books they'll never read.

I have no problem being incredibly rude to these people. Once I grabbed a book out of dude's bag. "I'm gonna read it. You're just gonna sell it. I win." He seemed flabbergasted, but I like to think he knew I was right.

Keeping It Simple 02.15.2013 09:55 AM

Think of the millions of trees saved from being cut down and pulped into paper to make books. Plus after awhile books become a health hazard, turning smelly, tatty and dirty. Yuck.

floatingslowly 02.15.2013 10:07 AM

I just gave away a giant sack (not stack) of books to a friend.

Stealin' from the mouths of industry babes!

Just like used vidya-games.

Rob Instigator 02.15.2013 10:09 AM

Only if you do nto know how to take care of the books.

Think of the millions of tons of toxic waste and hazardous materials generated by China making your ipad and kindle and other devices with no regards for environmental safety, or the damage done by mining for rare-earth metals, not to mention the millions of tons of used electronics thrown away in the trash. mercury poisoning the land and water due to gold mining, to make your precious circuit boards.

evollove 02.15.2013 10:24 AM

Seriously. You can grow a new tree. Can't grow a new river.

Rob Instigator 02.15.2013 10:27 AM

Most of the deforestation of rainforest around the world is not for paper, or for wood use, but to clear land for cattle, so that McDonalds can sell a trillion hamburgers around the world, at it's 25,000+ stores. Add BK, Jack in the box, Wendy's, and every other burger chain, then add the many restaurants that serve beef, and you have insanity!

!@#$%! 02.15.2013 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Yes but the music industry robs artists WAY more than downloading ever could



Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
Book publishers suck as much demon-dick as record companies. Sorry, but true.


two big differences:

one, artists enter deals with publishers voluntarily. hence, it may be a bad hookup, but it isn't rape.

two, what you guys are saying is like claiming that because women are raped "in the congo," it's okay for you to just smack them around a little. "hey, at least it's not rape like those guys do!" (which is false in the first place, as publishing deals are voluntary agreements).

three, and last, a digital economy allows authors (i say this in general for music, books, etc) to self-publish. piracy actually encourages the triumph of big business-- "sign with us and we'll take care of everything, lawyers, chinese pirates, plagiarists, etc."

really, there is no good in what you do. it's not the 90s anymore. go get your books from jenthebenn and your music from slavo or mbv.

floatingslowly 02.15.2013 11:02 AM

Thanks to digital rights management, you do not "own" books read through Kindle, you "lease" the right to read them, at Amazon's discretion to discontinue this right without notice.

Welcome to the Age of Information.

evollove 02.15.2013 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

two, what you guys are saying is like claiming that because women are raped "in the congo," it's okay for you to just smack them around a little.



Look again at a sample of my book collection. I marry more than I smack.

!@#$%! 02.15.2013 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
Look again at a sample of my book collection. I marry more than I smack.


doesn't matter, and it's not the right analogy anyway-- the point i'm trying to raise (and i'm not a cop so you're of course free to do as you wish) is that pirating digital media does fuck things up for others, regardless of whatever rationalizations we make for ourselves.

and don't get me wrong--- some of my best friends are pirates (ha!) and scofflaws of all sorts--- but the moral argument for consumer media piracy is no longer defensible in this century. you wanna argue for something like wikileaks, you might have my support-- but not for music, movies, books, etc., that can be legitimately obtained.

in other words, i don't care about your actual actions-- only your moral reasoning, ha ha ha.

evollove 02.15.2013 12:11 PM

1. I look around my room and see thousands of dollars worth of book purchases, so I get a little resentful to be accused of contributing to the decline of an industry.

2. But you're right. Sort of. Over the past week or so, by coincidence I've heard a number of filmmakers I respect talking about how dire the film industry has become. With profits so low, studios aren't taking chances. Mediocre blockbusters are all we get, until Oscar season. Woody has to go to Europe. Fucking Scorcese can't do what he wants. etc.

And I do wonder if stealing Dude Where's My Car in some way eventually contributes to the lack of small quality films.

!@#$%! 02.15.2013 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
1. I look around my room and see thousands of dollars worth of book purchases, so I get a little resentful to be accused of contributing to the decline of an industry.

your paper books weren't shoplifted though, right? all i'm saying is the same ethics apply to e-books.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evollove
2. But you're right. Sort of. Over the past week or so, by coincidence I've heard a number of filmmakers I respect talking about how dire the film industry has become. With profits so low, studios aren't taking chances. Mediocre blockbusters are all we get, until Oscar season. Woody has to go to Europe. Fucking Scorcese can't do what he wants. etc.

And I do wonder if stealing Dude Where's My Car in some way eventually contributes to the lack of small quality films.

yes it does. internet hi-five?


 

Keeping It Simple 02.15.2013 01:10 PM

Rob Instigator is dead right, obviously, but I did read recently that smartphones and tablets are getting greener, so, maybe in 5-10 years time, Robs argument will be moot, hopefully.

Rob Instigator 02.15.2013 01:34 PM

The only thing getting greener is the wallets of the already rich and powerful.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 02.15.2013 02:49 PM

IRONY.

From an artists perspective, we actually WANT to big movie studios and record companies to bleed to death. The big companies are trying to persuade artists that it is their fans fault, for sharing and downloading. what a crock of shit! How can people who listen to and watch your art be your enemies even if they didn't buy it? FUCK THAT. FUCK THE BIG STUDIOS. So what if rich as Martin Scorcese or Woody can't make another 8-figure movie. The sky is falling boo hoo! Fuck that corrupt, greedy system. Liberate ART.

It is a VICTORY that the big systems are collapsing under their own weight like the Roman Empire. When the big movie studios collapse, the independents and DIY will fill in the void like mom and pop book stores are reviving in the wake of Barnes and Noble disappearing. See how capitalism works? We shouldn't blindly support the studios because they appear to provide us the art. FUCK THE STUDIOS. Let them fall. Let the artists pick up the slack. Let artists create art for arts sake, and let the cards fall where they fall. If there is truly a market for their art, they will make their money. I listen to major label bands, I watch big studio movies. HOWEVER, if both the labels and the studios died off like the dinosaurs that they are I could really care less. Further I COULD GIVE A FUCK WHAT Y'ALL THINK. Y'all are even more brainwashed then the artists who pimp themselves out with bad contracts. Straight up these artists don't pay my bills, these studios don't pay my rent.


Quote:

Originally Posted by floatingslowly
I just gave away a giant sack (not stack) of books to a friend.

Stealin' from the mouths of industry babes!

Just like used vidya-games.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to floatingslowly again.

keep poppin pimples 02.15.2013 03:35 PM

i frankly don't care if authors go broke. if you can't earn any money get in the welfare line with the normal people, instead of crying that you're an artiste and entitled to everybodies attention and money

Rob Instigator 02.15.2013 03:43 PM

It is not if authors go broke, pimples. That will happen if no one read them. However, if there are thousands of people reading the author, and not paying, and the author goes broke, THAT is a crime!

h8kurdt 02.15.2013 03:48 PM

 


 


YOU'VE BEEN WARNED, LAD!

Trama 02.15.2013 03:55 PM

Still use mine. I like that I can read outside and toss it around without giving a fuck. Matter of fact, I've broken a screen before and the same day a new Kindle was on the mail, free of charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Severian
you'll probably end up being talked into one of the fancy pants new HD ones


They won't, they don't make any money on the hardware.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 02.15.2013 04:04 PM

Read books. Listen to music. Pay for it you can. Don't get caught up it the politics and the bullshit. FUCK BIG RECORD COMPANIES, BIG MOVIE STUDIOS, AND BIG PUBLISHERS. Fuck corporate fleecing and pimping of art. Free art. Free artists.

Straight up, I'd honestly feel more comfortable STEALING a book or a CD and then directly handing over a few bucks in cash to the artist as a handout. I feel more morally acceptable about that, I didn't have to get in cahoots with the big exploitative corporations. Haha. What is funny. I bet folks feel all smug and nice when they buy all this shit, and honestly dupe themselves into believing they are "supporting their favorite artists" when the sadder reality is those artists aren't seeing shit of that money, and the big companies win again ;)

!@#$%! 02.15.2013 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trama
Still use mine. I like that I can read outside and toss it around without giving a fuck. Matter of fact, I've broken a screen before and the same day a new Kindle was on the mail, free of charge.



They won't, they don't make any money on the hardware.


which one do you have? i wanted to get the cheapo but it seemed crummy. then i wanted to get the "paper white" version but didn't know.


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