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A beginners guide to modern classical?
I read Alex Ross' book The Rest is Noise which is excellent but a bit too exhaustive to really know where to begin with this stuff. I know there are a few posters here that are into it and ask if they could recommend say five 'essential' CDs. No massive 'collected works' box sets or anything like that but preferably some 'key' individual pieces. And by 'modern', I suppose I mean anything from the 20th Century onwards.
So far, the only things I have that might qualify are the Deutsche Gramaphone versions of Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time, Chronochromie and Des Canyons Aux Etoile. Oh, and a Naxos CD of Erik Satie. So yeah, five or so essential pieces of modern classical music is what I'm after. Not necessarily your favourites but the ones that might in some way be thought of as key - and if you can stretch to it, some reasons why would be even better. Muchas Gracias |
Does rhapsody in blue count?
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I dunno, maybe. If it does that's another one I've got.
Either way, it's an interesting question: is Rhapsody in Blue a piece of modern classical music? I suppose it depends on what we mean by 'modern' (and to a degree 'classical') I don't know what I mean in terms of classical but I suppose by modern I mean something that's in some way influenced by modernism. George Gershwin is touched by jazz which I suppose qualifies him to a certain degree. Same as Scott Joplin. |
schoenberg-pierrot lunaire (expressionism)
bartok-concerto for orchestra, or music for strings percussion and celesta (folklore with modernism) alban berg- violin concerto (12 tone, but not strict like webern) boulez-structures (not my favorite, but essential for strict serialism) ligeti-lux aeterna, atmospheres (micropolyphony) alfred schnittke-symphony 1 (postmodernism) |
Perfect. Exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Thanks.
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I'm no expert, but I would certainly suggest these excellent CDs:
   I read The Rest Is Noise last year and really enjoyed it - however I agree it's a little difficult to throw yourself into it by going to the CD store and purchasing CDs. I also suggest Ligeti - Disc 2 of The Ligeti Project is simply sensational. I also really like this disc as well:  I'm a big "fan" of Mozart (I use quotes because it seems kind of preposterous when I say fan in the context of Mozart) and Berg and the pieces on this disc are fantastic. I second the Messiaen as essential, and perhaps dipping into The Planets by Holst, although these suggestions may not be as contemporary as you'd like. Also really important in my mind is the Shostakovitch Edition box set, the chamber symphonies and concertos are fantastic and the performances are exception. I was lucky enough to find it very cheap and I suggest downloading it because a) he's dead and b) I've seen it priced at $170 smackaroos....... I'd also say that while they aren't contemporary pieces Goulds Goldberg Variations should stray far enough out of the realm to be considered....... Oh and there's a great double disc set from Penderecki that's fantastic. |
SHOSTAKOVICH! Yes!!!!!
I actually didn't know he was modern haha. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlMHjo7Jwhk One of my favorites! Please suggest me anything as brilliant as this, in the same vein |
I would say the part of rhapsody in blue that kicks in here is definitley classical, while the rest is a mixture of classical and jazz...but I don't know that much about this style of music, I just like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyMhg...eature=related 1:50 onward the first time I heard this piece of music and switch, after the super long repetative main section and variations of rhapsody in blue I almost died... it was like dying and being reborn It was also a dark time in my life and I was real sick, maybe that had influence on the movements effects |
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Some other pieces by movement: Tristan Murail - Gondwana (spectralism) Bernard Parmegiani - De Natura Sonorum (musique concrete) Helmut Lachemann - Gran Torso (musique concrete instrumentale - arguably a one-man movement) Alvin Lucier - Music on a long thin wire (Uh... electro-acoustic sound installations?) Steve Reich - music for 18 musicians (minimalism) The last one is a great starter for 10 - you may have heard it already. I find Reich intolerable but often forget 18 is actually very good. |
This is great. Thanks for these so far.
So did a similar thing happen to modern classical as happened to the major isms of the avant-garde, namely developing a centre in the US after WWII? I say this because there seems to be a dramatic shift from mostly European figures prior to the war and largely American ones after it. |
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I'll second Charles Ives and recommend Symphony No. 2 and also Violin Sonatas 1-4.
And of course Edgard Varèse deserves a mention. I was lucky enough to see Ameriques performed live. |
Thanks. Yeah, when I said America I was pretty much thinking of New York. But then there's the whole Black Mountain College thing so I didn't want to ignore that. Equally, the entire European avant-garde could for the most part be reduced to a few key cities.
But the big question remains unanswered: is 'Rhapsody in Blue' a piece of modern classical music? |
And Louis Andriessen is worth checking out, if only for De Staat a live performance of which blew me away earlier this year.
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And I'll also mention Janáček and recommend String Quartets 1 & 2.
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Ah, you may have solved a mystery that's been plaguing me for ages. I read something about a composer who's name I could never remember and could never find any way of finding out, just by saying "He's American, meant to be great, into the American landscape". And I think that might be him. Finally! Quote:
Great point! A number of some of Europe's most interesting experimental filmmakers also moved there - largely to be as close as possible to Hollywood - but out of that came a really interesting west coast avant-garde film scene. I've got a real fetish for West Coast pop art and it's amazing how even now, even in the US, so little is written about it. So yeah, absolutely, there's a definite tendency to over-emphasise NY's role in it all. |
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Yeah, but is it a modern classical piece? EDIT: Where did your avatar go?!? It was amazing. |
It was written in 1924 and your definition of modern is "anything from the 20th Century onwards."
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naxos does not only release modern music.
and gershwin is definitely modern classical. he took sounds and genres that were foreign to western art music and incorporated them into it. that sounds pretty modern to me (not that classical and romantic composers didnt incorporate popular and folk music into their pieces) but gershwin incorporated the sounds of modern society, in the sense of the bustling cities and street sweepers, and making an opera out of jazz music. |
My Naxos comment was a joke and yes she is pretty amazing isn't she?
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as was my reply. and yes, she is. |
mine wasn't, that completely went over my head.
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Thanks, but I just wiki'd him and ... he's not the one. my quest goes on. (I'm actually beginning to wonder if I just imagined him.) |
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That definitely settles it, for sure. |
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See, Aaron Copeland (who I like) is the one who people always suggest as the mystery composer. He's American, generally considered good and into the American landscape. He fits perfectly. It probably even is him. So thanks again, albeit with slightly less euphoria than before. |
Well you helped me realise this composer I'd been looking for probably never existed to begin with. So definite thanks for that, if just for the effort it'll save me in not looking for him anymore.
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Yeah, I was thinking about jazz when reading fugazifan's post, re Gershwin and Modernism. I certainly think there's a case to be made (and which nodoubt has been made a number of times) for jazz composers like Ellington right up to say Mingus.
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I just finished listening to it on youtube. I'd definitely be into hearing more stuff like that. |
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I was thinking of Kaija Saariaho when I was writing that, but Murail's one of the 'instigators' of spectralism, along with Gerard Grisey. The lineage runs (roughly) from Xenakis, Varése and takes in bits of concrete (which makes it very close to Lachenmann) and sound-art (say, Naumann). There's a great piece by Horaitu Radelescu, 'Infinite cannot be anti-infinite' which is worth checking out - he split up an octave into something like 140 intervals. Spectralism is kind of interesting to me because it's the first movement which uses new technology for the experiment, rather than as material. So the 'spectral analysis' - where aspects of a sound are physically interrogated with spectroscopes or whatever they are - are the experiment which informs the resultant music (and necessary slippage between that analysis and what is possibly with the orchestra as is) rather than using (for instance) record players as material (Cage's Williams Mix/ radio stuff). It's a load of geeks in sound labs rather than a load of geeky composers seeking new musical instruments in modern technology. |
If it's not too rude, could I point you to the wiki article on spectralism, and recommend a detour through this article about a Xenakis piece and maybe a quick look at the article on IRCAM? I'll happily try and fill in the gaps from there.
I think it's really unfair on all parties to say it 'sounds like Sonic Youth' though. SY have only a mildly unusual approach to composition (as such) - tonally speaking, they're very tame. |
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Great, thanks. Reading the wiki page, the fundamental idea seems quite similar to Divisionism (and to a lesser degree Pointilism) in painting. Although clearly less abstract in its end result:  |
Hi,
I have a few faves, but all classical and older pieces. There are two pieces you need to listen to right now:they arer older, but I want you to listen to classics, go listen to these: tell me what you think. 1) Hector Berioz: symphonie fantastic ( no 5), or the whole thing: of course the whole thing will take a while to get through. Try to read about the story behind it. 2) Penderecki: threnody for the victims of hiroshima. this is scarey I honestly believe the untimate composer and piece to listen to (in its entire form) is Hector Berlioz- Symphonie Fantastique- Now this is not a modern piece, but Wow. The story and themes behind it, is truely in a world of its own. I had to stuy this piece for a year. I remember the haunting witches theme. Modern Classical: Phillip Houghton, Richard Charlton, John Cage. Old faves: Chopin (great piano solos), Penderecki (I think thats how to spell it??), Penderecki has chilling music, esp, his thronody for the victims of Hiroshima, which has an eerie sound, a wall of violins which are also similar in cult movies such as Phsycho. - listen to this: Penderecki- threnody for the victims of hiroshima. |
Massive resource of early electronic/ conrete stuff here. Worth listening to the Schaeffer/ Varese/ Parmegiani/ Posseur [etc etc].
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Xenakis' Concrete PH is an absolute must as well - incredible.
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radiOM.org has some pretty fantastic stuff as well.
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Great post I love the 'Metropoliton' film you're talking about but obviously don't have any of your personal insights into it. |
Edit post > delete > make sure the button saying 'delete this post' is ticked' > click delete post.
You don't need to enter a reason. Just for future reference, I don't think that post is in any way irrelevant, and even if it was I don't think it'd matter. |
Quite seriously, you should write a book about this stuff. Absolutely fascinating.
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