Immigration Reform: what should the Gov't do?
 

Should we kick the illegal immigrants out of the country?
Should we just let them stay without criminal prosecution?
Should we jail them or deport them?
Should we grant all current illegal immigrants automatic citizenship?

Suggestions? Thoughts? What should our Gov't do?

Does "white suburban America"(ie. SY fans) care?

First things first, close those damn borders. geez..11 or 12 million illegals is enough, i would think. Security. Don't treat them as felons and kick them out, but they have to file for proper citizenship or else they're out..maybe have a time frame in which they have to follow these procedures...and no automatic benefits of cititzenship until they're in the system, documented, accounted for. It's wrong that illegals expect U.S rights at our cost. No temp worker bs, that's just a clusterfuck. i don't know how much i buy the old argument of jobs americans won't do..it's true to an extent, but...i think it perpetuates letting them in illegally, taking U.S jobs, and paying them nothing.

they should control the media so that they report that all imigrants are here to steal peoples jobs and take over power in a spree of crime ridden anarchy. they should tell everyone that the entire fabric of society will be torn into shreds if we allow this to keep happening, oh wait...

It takes 4 years to become an American Citizen after filing and going through the process. What do we do with those who are already in the country? You brought up the idea that they should "file for proper citizenship or else...", what do we do with those who are already in the country who are made to file today? Do they have to go through the process just like those who are in line to become citizens legally? Or are they granted citizenship automatically? If they're not granted citizenship automatically, then are they given green cards/work permits automatically? If they are granted citizenship automatically, what message is being sent to those who go through the process legally?

I'll state my stance in a moment. I'm just trying to get people thinking about all the angles because IMO this issue is extremely delicate and much more complex than it seems.

It's really simple: The whole concept of "illegal" immigration is absurd. If white people didn't enter this country illegally (or, at least, immorally), then it's not even possible (especially for some guy from Mexico that just wants a job). Hmm. Genocide of the native Americans, anyone?

easy there, stereotyping nazi

and you get offended when K-K-K-chris makes his appearance here

we are not all like you...fucking bigot

haha, i'm a white suburbanite, but good call anyway, my friend.

LOL!

Doesn't it suck Everyneurotic that you can't play your "troll" games here or else you'd get banned???

Do you ever sleep at night?

BTW, yeah...it was a good call;)


If you could tell me what is funny about "KKK", maybe I would've understood your reasoning to troll.

i think that the mexicans (illegals) in the USA if they really love mexico they must to return to mexico and work for the country.
here are many opportunities of work etc, and why not? create their own opportunities.

Aquien le gusta estar en un lugar donde no lo quieren? yo creo que a nadie, sinceramente no entiendo a los inmigrantes ilegales, para mi es un pretexto el decir que se van porque no hay oportunidades, para mi es el camino facil y mas que nada se a echo una costumbre y casi una tradicion. tambien la verdad me molesta ver en la tv miles de mexicanos con banderas de mexico y gritando cosas patrioticas cuando ellos fueron los primeros en huir, no se quedaron a afrontar los problemas y a cambiar el pais. y mas que ayudar a su tan "amado" pais le quitan lo mas importante que es su capital humano y dan una mala impresion del pais a nivel mundial, gracias a ellos (y aa los de otros paises tambien) muchos al decir mexicanos lo primero que piensan es en la sirvienta o en el ilegal que conocen etc... no soy malinchista pero no podemos estar culpando a USA por las acciones que tome alfin y al cabo son solo acciones tomadas pero no son ellos los del problema somos nosotros (mexico) los que debemos cambiar las cosas. yo no conosco a nadie que sea ilegal y tal ves por eso no comprenda al 100% lo que ellos piensan o su desesperacion pero asi veo las cosas y para mi no hay pretexto.

Yes, this is very complex. Hell, we haven't even touched on the reprecussions on an economic front. Thinking of all angles and writing about them is more suited for writing a book, not posting dribs and drabs on a message board.

this issue is NOT about m,exicans. Only 60% of the latin american immigrants that are here illegaly are mexican. there are about 30 other countries' peoples here too. Mexico just happens to be the closest one so every person goes through mexico to get here. I think that closed borders is stupid as hell. I think making it a fucking FELONY to be here illegaly is stupid as hell. I think jingoistic fucking assholes are using "immigrants" as a scapegoat for shit, and using it as a distraction from Iraq and afghanmistan. they did the same thing with the abortion debate a year ago. the people that are here working , that we choose to tag wit the fearmongering phrase "illegal alien" (which could just as easily be called "undocumented immigrant" sounds less threatening huh?), they are HARD ORKING people. they work in fields that otherwise noone would do. construction, agriculture, home cleaning, handyman, maids, sitters, nannies, etc. They pay taxes, they consume goods in the usa, they pay rent, the FEEED our economy.

don;t believe the hype

Yeah, well the idea of a distraction by the right is sound one normally, but the right is split on this. bush, i think, doesn't want this fight b/c things are so bad across the board, it will only serve to split his base. Also Bush doesn't want them here legally, per se , b/c then there is a spotlight on what these people work for, and what will need to be given to them by the govt. they'd rather have them under the table so they, the businesses etc , can dictate terms over the workers... perpetuating power over the working class w/o govt. interference..same idea.

do you think i'm kkkchris? do you think i would hide behind some other screename to annoy you? do you think you are that important to me?

well, no i'm not; if you read correctly, i didn't mock you or anything, in fact i didn't even post to annoy you. i addressed you straight up. (you probably just read "kkkchirs" and got your panties in a twist)

like everytime i post something for you to read, i have yet to explain it to you (here comes the kkk reference). i was pointing out that you post endlessly about racism in the us being bad and so on, when all of a sudden you turn around and start stereotyping and generalizing the people who like sonic youth and post in this board, pointing your finger and mocking them as "white suburban american". first of all, you generalize that all people living in the suburbs in the us are stupid and shallow people, isn't that a generalization like what white power people say about black people and jewish people and gay people? so how's it going to be? attacking offensive stereotypification with more offensive stereotypification? that seems stupid and offensive to me, even if i'm neither "suburban", nor "white" nor "american".

which lead me to my second point here, not everybody in this board is from the suburbs in the united states. in fact, i think only half the people here are from the us, so why do you insist on thinking that everyone here is the same? that's what bothered me, you think you know who you are talking to but you don't have the slightest idea.

again, i'm not a troll and i've never been a troll, i tell the stuff i want to tell you straight up, i won't even say anything about you. i made my point.

Round of applause for everyneurotic... and on another point, what I quite like about message boards is that it is, essentially, raceless. Unless I choose to divulge my race, people don't need to know. To that end, I could be any number of races, nationalities or religions. As it happens I'm proud to be English, but I'm not happy to divulge my race on-line because I think that means less, here, than does nationality.

As a consequence of this, I couldn't care less about America's immigration policy, but I am interested in Britain's.

There is no way to stop immigration. As long as there is a demand for the jobs and amenities of life in the U.S. people will come. So the question is not about putting an end to immigration but rather how we deal with it. Those that come here without going through the proper channels are rightly called illegal immigrants because they are here illegally.
However, these immigrants do provide very important services for the economy, and it is a fact that they do jobs that many citizens would refuse to do. Reducing barriers to trade and freeing up markets is what boosts economies around the world and battles poverty. The trade of labor should also be freed up so that if the jobs in the U.S. are better than the jobs in Latin America (which it seems that they are since millions of people flock to the U.S.) the people that want those jobs can get them.
BUT... they need to do so legally. Temporary worker programs allow workers to come from outside the U.S. and work for a specified amount of time, but after that period the workers are supposed to return to their home countries. Many of these workers establish lives in the U.S. that makes it very difficult for them to just up and leave. So should we just let them stay? Not necessarily. But should we make some provisions as to allow them the opportunity to apply for citizenship if they do wish to stay? I think so.
A temporary worker program that has a stipulation that allows for the workers to remain in the U.S. for a given number of years (I think one number being thrown around is 6 years) would allow these workers to apply for citizenship. Then they would be entitled to all the benefits of being a citizen of the U.S.. I think Rob Instigator said that these people pay taxes... well they do pay sales taxes but they certainly don't pay income taxes. I don't really understand the people that argue that illegal immigrants should receive all the same benefits of citizens. It's not that difficult to become a citizen, although it does take time.

No politicans will propose measures that will actually address the immigration issue and get to the source of the problem. Instead of trying to go after each and every one of these immigrants (and spending a shitload of tax money to do it) there should be strict enforcement of the rules for companies. However, this is not a problem of "perpetuating power over the working class" or any of that Marxist nonsense. It is just very practical. If it is harder for companies to employ illegal immigrants the number of jobs available to illegal (or undocumented) workers will decrease. Note this doesn't actually decrease the number of jobs, just that these jobs must be filled by legal workers. Since the people do want to come to the U.S., this will create an incentive for them to do so through legal means and apply for citizenship.

damn

I feel very strongly about this issue since my parents used to be illegal immigrants and I know how tough it is. It really pisses me off when people start talking about it when they know nothing of how it feels. These are people that have had everything handed to them their whole life and don't know even how tough it is to be an illegal immigrant.

To the people that say that immigrants come to America and jump right on the band wagon and start receiving benefits, it's not like they are coming over here and living a fucking kick-ass life. They are working in menial jobs and trying to make money. It's not like they have the money to pay taxes. Just because you have money it doesn't mean that they do. Everything is about money. Just because you are rich it doesn't mean everybody else is.
In addition to this, immigrants contribute about $90 billion to the economy each year. That's a fucking big margin.

Oh yeah, I don't know why people get mad when they say immigrants are taking "American" jobs. What makes them think that they are so much better than another human being that they deserve a job more than an immigrant. Just because on a peice of paper it say you're American, you should get the job. I just don't see why they deserve the job more. Everybody needs jobs.

I'm from Chile and I'm embarrased about chileans thieves being caught in Spain

My teacher was talking to us about this. She said it wasn't the immigrants faults that they are working for companies and get paid next to nothing, it was the companies. I think that is really stupid though. It is their fault for participating, they know that it is illegal. Other than that I don't know too much about it. What Nature Scene said sounds good to me.

Yes, I do think you would get a login and hide just to troll, which is why you "condone trolling" even if it bothers those you hate(like myself). I'm different. I don't condone trolling whatsoever, even on people I don't care for myself(like you). If I saw a troll mocking you, I won'd not condone it at all because it's a petty thing to do. You on the contrary do support "trolling", which leads me to believe you do a bit of trolling yourself.

You are assuming and misguided. Never did I say "white suburban America" was "shallow and stupid". That's something you made up yourself. Case closed. Secondly, I never made a direct reference to you personally. So if you think me calling out "White Suburban American SY fans" was an insult to yourself, I'd have to believe that I pretty much hit the nail in the head(hahaha!). By the way, another guy had stated he was a white suburban SY fan, which is nothing wrong to be. Where did you get the idea that "white suburban SY fans" was a "bad thing" to be?

I'd be willing to bet that more than 75% of the fans here reside in the US(care to take a poll? Or are you that afraid of being proven wrong?).

Everyneurotic, sucks you can't play "kkkhchrist" anymore, huh?

I have to admit that i am a white suburbaner.

So am I.

I concur with a lot of this; I have a few close friends who arrived in Britain from various war-torn areas - where I live there are a lot of (legal and illegal) Bosnian immigrants, and while I was in London (up until a few months ago) I met a lot of different immigrants from around the world. One of my closest friends came from Afghanistan, via most of Eastern Europe. She speaks 7 languages, is more articulate than most English people born here and still considers English her third language. She would get a lot of stick for two reasons - because she was an immigrant (illegally, but she didn't tell everyone that) and because she was Afghani. She would often rip people's heads of for going on about immigrants living off the state because there's always this assumption that they're lazy, stupid and freeloading. None of this was the case, her whole family worked in menial jobs - two cousins of hers were cleaning toilets while in Afghanistan they were trained, practising doctors. They all spoke at least three languages. Most of them had degrees in medical or scientific subject. I think Britain and America are both mongrel nations in so far as there is no real ethnicity or one place that the nations come from.

However, the issue it seems is more one of litigation than it is of compassion. I personally think that we should make the process of immigration a lot easier for other countries, and also work harder on getting regimes in the more unpleasant parts of the world to make it easier for people to leave their homelands if the place is falling apart. I think the 'illegal immigrants' are a symptom of their country's fucked up economy and political system most of the time rather than being 'freeloaders'. But this is the political side of things that so often gets brushed over. British and American foreign policy is largely responsible for the 'illegal' immigrants - you can't get rid of 'them' that easily.

So am I. But not American.
Do I count?

its amazing just how rabid the tabloid press in britain is about this subject. its also amazing that much of the population are just accepting what is said about immigration without any knowledge of the facts. i guess that just proves what a bunch of dorrito chugging, mindless, sit infront of the tv, spoon fed idiots some people really are.

recall once spotting a headline from the daily mail (right wing shitstorm newspaper in the uk) who's banner headline was 'immigrants are to blame for everything'

sarcasim: fuck american's getting jobs

spend tax dollars on war housing and feeding the US prisons

kill someone or commit numberous crimes in the US
we'll put you up at our local prison hotels provide food, internet, sex, drugs
you can run your ebay business from inside the jail

what does it have to do with illegals in our country
think about it

I read the Daily Mail the other day. I am now concerned that everyone I meet is either gay, a paedophile, an illegal immigrant or secretly a black teenager, and all of them are out to kill me and steal my money. The worst are the gay paedophile teenager immigrants with ASBOs.

you should read tv go home's daily mail island. 30 people left on a deserted island with no other form of media than the daily mail. its great reading.

day 30: following lee and anna's out of wedlock intercourse it is their turn to be tied to the beating posts.

also check out heat dungeon. pretty much the same concept but with people being locked in a windowless room 300 metres below the ground with nothing more than heat magazine to read.

day 3: trevor and elaine sit in their own faeces as they stare at pictures of robbie williams drinking tango at a charity football match.

i find it funnt anyway.

where did i say i condone trolling?


you wish i was kkkchris; i repeat...nah, you know what, you need reading lessons, go back and read my last post. stop assuming things and stop being paranoid, don't think that because a person has a different opinion than you or because you can't make up your mind and someone points that out, doesn't make them trolls.

you really don't remember kkkchris, right?

Everyneurotic, I'm sorry if I humiliated and made you look stupid in the past. Please accept my apology for this and move forward and get over it. I feel bad knowing you lose sleep over me and get irrate everytime you see my name on the board.

I won't pick on you or humiliate you anymore, even if it's too easy to do.

I hope you get over it:)

I believe there should be open borders and full amnesty for any illegal immigrants in the U.S.A.

However, I think a few concerns need to be addressed, in order to accommodate the U.S. for modern assimilation of immigrants.

For one, any form of immigration has its effects as urban sprawl and overpopulation. Incentives should be made for newly arrived, illegal immigrants to settle in the midwest, where the effects of urban sprawl would be less felt than the cities. I wouldn't say there is a shortage of land in the U.S., I just think the cities (Los Angeles, etc.) are having high density issues (traffic, pollution, etc.), which is getting compounded more and more over time.

Overpopulation by all citizens (immigrant and non-immigrant) is also a correlating factor in any talks of immigration. I think it is crucial that the U.S. establish a firm rule for the amount a of children a family could have, I feel that no more than 2 children would be appropriate for all families in the U.S. There is just too many problems surrounding the cities of this country, associated with overpopulation and urban sprawl.... so please less children for everyone.

Given the fact that Central and South America are close neighbors, NAFTA and other government agencies need to do their part in establishing nourishing relationships with the Americas, so that those countries aren't such shitty places to live in the first place. We could stimulate the economy and job market in these countries by moving our Manufacturing plants away from China to countries that are not only logistically closer, but could use the economic boost much more.

Anyways, those are my opinions on the crisis, which definitely needs to be dealt with. One thing is certain though, walls on the borders and minutemen patrolling are not only hypocritical and demeaning in my opinion, but they also do not accomplish shit.

khchris feels superior over everyone because he's a city dwelling Asian...

LOL!

yet another problem that was created over time to divide & conquer with...use your heads

what we have here is cheap labor milked for all it's worth & then when the public starts to outcry over too much illegal immigration, politicians get to use it as a campaign issue...now that outsourcing is commonplace & America has become a service economy, the orders from the top (from the billionaires, the multi-nationals) are to make illegal immigration a hot button issue

please, i plead with everyone not to make me explain again that this board is essentially private property, but khchris' troll should be banned immediately. I know chabib has already stated how he feels about deleting posts, but the precedent needs to be made. I advocated the same policy on the old board in the case of impostor posters. (Imp-Posters)

on the subject of "divide & conquer" (see post above)
i'd like to elucidate further.
The coming abortion as a state's rights issue will cause a further rift in this country. (as planned)
I heard on the SNL news that some freak that pretends he's a vampire in Michigan is running for office. What a numbskull that asshole must be; his repugnant agenda plays right into the hand of the government's divide & conquer stratagem. I also heard that Pat Robertson once remarked that people that believe in UFOs should be stoned. Well, I would never in a million years support anything that ridiculously evil, but I will address their stupidity verbally.
I'll begin with Area 51 in Roswell, New Mexico. In the beginning it was probably unintentional, but what happened went down like this. Experimental aircraft containing chimpanzees crashed in the desert. Citizens discovered the wreckage. The government understandably had an anti-spy protocol & policy of secrecy about the program & denied knowledge of the crash. People mistook the simian carcasses for "alien" corpses & the subsequent silence from the government as a conspiracy. The government (doing what they do) seized this as a new opportunity to divide & conquer. Realizing that they could increase the number of people who believed in "space seed" or whatever by deliberately staging future sightings, they then launched a campaign of disinformation.

Let em in! Too many boring white people in this country.