Reassessing Murray Street
 

Background Info:
So I got into SY back in 2002, I had heard Evol, Sister and Goo and loved them all. It was a whole new kind of excitement discovering a band this different. I happened to pick up a magazine and noticed SY had a new album coming out Murray St, so i bought it and was severely disappointed when i heard it. Where were the noise assaults on my ears leading me off the cliff of a mountain. I dug a few songs on there that had prominent noise parts like "rain on tin", "karen revisted" and "radical adults" but overall the album was too mellow for me. The album collected dust and was only played when i needed something soothing to sleep to.

Flash forward 6 years later, I play it again and am absolutely knocked back by it. Is this the same album? My ears originally went directly for the most obvious sound and was completely ignorant of the noisy chaos lying right underneath the more calm guitars. The raw whirling distorted buildup on 'the empty page", the ghostly feedback in the bkgrd of "radical adults", the slumber like lunges of distortion in "dsiconnection notice and the drone noise outro to "Karen revisted" has only gotten better. I totally understand the comparisons to DDN (which i had before scoffed at) considering all the wild changeups like the epic part of "Rain on Tin".That whole song now sounds like a modern sy classic like "pattern recognition" or "the unmade bed". Its great to get a whole new appreciation for an album like this. This might even be better than Sonic Nurse, I'll have to play that one again next.

MURRAY ST is one of my handful of favorite SY albums. Like part of the best of the best. Up there with EVOL and CONFUSION for me. Love it.

still this one and daydream nation are my favourite SY albums.
I cant nail it down exactly why this makes it that high in my ranking. but everything about it is perfect for my taste.
karen revisited is one of my all time favourite songs, sympathy for the strawberry is just fuckin perfect, rain on tins build up is perfect, the empty pages melody and the resulting short outburst is awesome. radical adults got one beast of a riff plus totally insane sax players which opening hell soundwise, nice idea to let somebody else make the noise. plastic sun is good as it is, short and disconnection notice`swelling guitar sound enhances the "not best" song on the album pretty well.
and I totally adore the cover!!!
nailed down

Agreed, Al. There's something wonderfully perfect about every note of this record. Stunning.

This is the only SY album I've listened to in a good year besides some random songs. Always loved the production and playing on this one. It's perfect, except for "Plastic Sun", which is so short that it's easy to ignore anyway.

How could anyone deny "Rain on Tin"?

"Sympathy for the Strawberry" is my favorite track. With "Karenology" a close second, and the opening Thurston suite following....

I agree. the production is one of the finest for the yoof and some of the bet by orourke. I am a total junkie for the overall sound of that record.

'Rain On Tin' is the worst song on that album with 'Plastic Sun'. The rest is good. I don't give a shit about 'the production'.

Yeah. I don't see why people bring that stuff up. They're well arranged and well written songs and anyone who's good at recording bands- be it Al Sutton, Butch Vig, Steve Albini, or whoever, would record it well.

amazing LP. Laid back and very "conscious" at the same time.
I remember very well the day i went out o buy it on release day.
Got back home and rolled a super fat joint.
then hit PLAY
and wow.
that was when leaks did not exist.

First of all, "Rain On Tin" is amazing. I loved HURRICANE FLOYD when it came out, so I was excited to hear bits of "Choir Boy" seap into "Rain." And the interplay betwixt the guitars in that song are some of the Youth's most impreessive.

And you can try to be all Calvin Johnson and say the 'production' is irrelevent, but it's basically the most important part of Jim's input on MURRAY ST. You can act like a producer/engineer/recorder/whatever doesn't matter, but there IS a certain sound to MURRAY ST, a lot like Jim's influence on Wilco's YANKEE HOTEL FOXTROT.

It's absurd talking about production when it comes to SY full stop. All their records stem too much from a collective way of imagining how things would sound good in the first place.

Strangely enough, MURRAY ST was the first leak I ever encountered! Weird, right?

yes but they never sounded that brilliant without sounding overproduced before and after orourke

oh maybe then; not for me though.

Production is important for any band. It's always an intention to reach some kind of focal point, be it lo or hi fi.

No it's not. I can't be arsed to write a long post about it because nobody will give a shit 'cause they can't tell a producer from a sound engineer, but you're totally wrong. Self-recorders, imagination and all that spring to mind.

had never noticed, will listen to both and compare. Are they similar riffs???

I think Murray Street was the beginning of the end for me, in many ways.

Yes it is.
and i can TOTALLY tell the diff between a producer and a sound engineer. And what i do also know is that what the producer can do depends on what kind of sound was recorded by the sound engineer in the first place. They were obviously going for something very "clear" and "pristine" sounding, be it from a sound engineer or producer point of view.
It's the cleanest sounding SY record and both the engineering and the production go hand in hand on that matter.

i don't know what you mean with the self recorder and imagination stuff though.

i like it when you cantradict me cuz i get an instant boner. hot stuff.

sonic Youth didn't work with a producer till 'Dirty'?

I think.

for me it opened another chapter of the long history of the band.
i my opinion its not better or worse then any other chapter, its just another one with good sides and bad sides.
I get what everyone is saying that murray street was some kind of turning point. for me it wasnt a bad one and none for the better, just another.
and this kind of "evolving" is something I love about them

hey?
huh . I'd have to investigate on the producer / sound engineer side of the Dirty was most def the first time when they called a well known "producer" .
it's a tedious notion though cuz a guy like Albini claims he is only a sound engineer although he obviously is BOTH a super engineer AND a producer who pours his ideology of sound into anything he has recorded over the years.

I think John Agnello is not a good producer, hence my scepticism. Just look at the sort of people he worked with. Hopefully the new album will prove me wrong, just not holding my breath.

I give up.

same here

oh no please don't stop.

i agree with you about Agnello. His background doesn't appeal to me at all.
i'm not that of a producer person anyway. I don't care as long as the sound is good to my ears.
But some of the producers out there have a vision that i really like. And my point about Albini is spot on, whether you like it or not.:D

well, check out albini's background, then.

Sonic youth is one of the bands who got the last word when it comes to the final sound of their recordings, but I am pretty sure that the guys who are hired as producers will try to left their footprints in the sound too. they are making suggestions while mixing and the youth members will give their yes or their no. if it werent the case they just would not need any producer.
I think its more like letting a person from "the outside" work within a closed group of artists and maybe enhance their ideas or maybe not.
and I agree, agnello is not one of them where I am really interested in his "ideas". but I hope for some good ones, of course.
orourke managed to clean up their sound without stealing its soul and letting the strong parts become even stronger, at least he did it for me, again a matter of taste of course

already done sir. I'm no expert in anything but i'm totally ALBINI-savvy.
and some friends of mine (CHEVREUIL) who recorded a couple of LPs with him will tell you the same (refering to sound engineer / producer fine line).

anyway, stop teasing and put yr clothes back on, back to topic, no?

btw, just to clarify my point of view, placing a mike is already production for me.

It's not though.

hahahaha it is!!!! Production is a matter of choice/ decisions which start very early in the process. You can always argue with this as very often "producers" are called in to rescue sinking boats though mixing or even REmixing. Sometimes they succeed but usually it's doomed to failure if the initial engineering choices were bad (ie if the overall sound of the takes is shit)
which is kind of funny really, because what i'm getting at is PRECISELY YOUR POINT: talking about production is meaningless because everyone has a different definition of what IT is.

There's whole sections jacked from "Choir Boy"... it's awesome!

They worked with plenty of producers before Dirty. I think "Dirty" and "Experimental" both sound way too slick. Daydream Nation also has shitty bass production. Most of their albums sound great though. The sound of this album is bright and clean but dark undertones. Also, reminds me of an updated "Marquee Moon", with all the clean guitars fighting for space and stuff. Great album.

Murray Street sits in the lower third of the sonic youth discog for me. It is too same-y throughout, same tempos, same tones, same dare-I-say-it, soft-rock tendencies.
It is a good album, and has some great songs, but it is a downer for me, and sonic youth albums are NEVER downers for me.

Basically, I am talking about thurston's songs. I hope he got that troubador bullshit out his system.
I do not listen to it often, and then I do it cuz it is one of the few my girlfriend can handle, cuz it's PUSSY SOFT

"duih i hate aluibumz twher esy plays well and doean't make a lawt of rockin noize"

yes, because saying that one likes sweet drinks is equal to saying that one enjoyes three cups of maple syrup.

yeah.

don;t woprry, it is cool to like their soft shit man. you will lose no "hardcore" rep.

Sometimes, I like to just hear good, technical playing.


I think the best mix of that AND noise is "A Thousand Leaves" though...