if the core of catholic belief is that jesus died for your sins
 

then shouldnt you thank the jews for killing him instead of holding it against them?

Yeah I've never understood that.

All we talk is about Jesus, he wasn't that cool of a hippie to begin with.

Haha good point

Because Catholics are Romans. And Romans hated Jews well before they changed the names of their Gods to those of Saints.

The real Christian dogma is that everyone future, past, and present is responsible for Christ's horrible death.

Hence scaring them into believing.
Hence why I do not follow religion.

but the finger is pointed at the jews more often than not

I wasn't aware that we did hold Christ's death against the Jews, I thought we held it against mankind.

If he died for my sins, does that mean that criteria of who does and doesn't get into heaven is the idea of loving god constantly and strongly? I don't get how it can be so easy and how it can cause so much hate, and yet there is so much evil in the world. It seems an insufficient doctrine to prevent evil.

no doctrine is sufficient to prevent evil

i think there's balance in all things, it's a shame but i don't think you can keep love and eliminate hate for example

je... sus?

Jewsus?

A lot of assumptions.

You ask about Catholics and then put a "you" into the question as if the reader is likely to be catholic. Not too many of them here, despite Thurston's upbringing.

Then there's the implication that the core of Catholic belief is that Jews killed Jesus. While I don't doubt that a lot of Catholics have probably had that prejudice in history, there is nothing in their belief system that says so. The tradition is that the Romans crucified Christ and Catholocism is the historical Christian church of the Romans.

Now, I'm sure that the inherent guilt that Catholics feel for having killed their savior has led many to look for somebody else to blame. Since the belief is also that the Jews didn't stop them from crucifying their leader and turned on him, they became easy scapegoats.

But of course all of this has nothing to do with the world we live in some 2,000 years after the mythic event. People of different religions tend to have animosity for each other the way that different gangs do, and usually over the same things like turf and bragging rights. The gangs are just a bit more honest about it.

I'm Catholic and I don't blame the jews for anything- it's pretty retarded to blame a huge group of people for something their 2000-year-old ancestors supposedly did. Romans had as much to do with the death of Jesus as anybody else, and they ARE the Catholic church.

I don't think many people actually still believe in all that 'jews are to blame' bullshit anyway, I know I don't, so please don't generalise about my religion's beliefs.

- Many Catholics do thank Jews. I've never recieved a thank you card or anything, but I've heard this idea circulate before.

- Do the Jews really kill Jesus anyway? I might be wrong here, but Pontius Pilate had no problem killing folks. Why did he get all wishy washy on this guy? A few people suspect that this is one instance of the New Testaments historical, um, inaccuracy.

- For those who do blame the Jews, get a grip. America got over England's attrocities during the Revolutionary War. Hell, the world seems pretty cool with Germany noadays. Get a grip and practice some grace.

I thought the Romans killed him.
I wash my hands of this.

i didnt mean to insinuate that you or anyone else on this board is of these opinions, and it wasnt anything against catholics, and i really shouldnt have put that "you" in my question.
i guess i should have prased it better

Jewish religious leaders had him arrested and gave him over to Pontius Pilate.

And then Pontius Pilate allowed the crowds to choose to spare one prisoner, and they chose a criminal.

I know there are Jewish people who refuse to acknowledge that any rabbi could ever be corrupt. Which seems strange to me. As a non-church going Christian, I accept the corruption of religious leaders as a fact of life.

I don't think it is a doctrine to prevent evil. It's a doctrine of coming to terms with inherent evils.

I think that's a misinterpretation.

I think fear and guilt are things that really shouldn't be part of Christianity. I don't think that Jesus intended to be a fear monger when he taught people. I think the intention was to send a much more positive message.

Catholics only blame Jews for a lark; truly speaking, Jews aren't known for their regicide.

Well, yes, actually some theologians have made exactly that argument. However, that is against the entire point of condemning the jews of Jesus' generation.

Those Jews of that time, they denied His divinity, His grace, His absolute Love for Mankind. The purpose of condemning those Jews is to provoke the Christians to remain in continuous praise and perpetual thanksgiving. It is to remind Christians NOT to condemn Jesus as they did, and to embrace Jesus Christ eternal sacrifice for men's salvation.

Of course, the complication, particularly in Christian communities with large jewish populations across history, such as in Poland, Spain, Syria, and especially Ethiopia, is that contemporary Jews represent a socio-political threat against the establishment represented by Christianity. The beef with jews between Christians historically has been far more motivated by politics and economics than with theology or religion.

Jews in Eastern Europe or Northern Africa represented either banking or metalurgy, all extremely valuable and competitive positions.

But I think that this was already well covered :


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SpectralJulianIsNotDead again.

I go to an American synod Ethiopian Orthodox Church, there is a split between the Metropolitan Bishopric of Abun Merkorios and the Addis Ababa Synod and Bishopric of Abun Paulos, the Patriarch of Ethiopia. As such, there is a serious division in Ethiopian Orthodox Churches in America, and a shitload of name-calling and finger pointing... I dont get any of it, and I couldn't not agree more with your statement, it should be in the fucking bible!

Truly, accepting the corruption of religious leaders is declaration of faith. While there is division in my church, I love and accept my Church as God-given and divine, and the divisions are petty and man-made..

You have been exposed to the wrong elements of Christianity. Christianity is there to remind you of the love for mankind with God has, in sending Himself in the incarnation of the Infinite and Immortal Godhead bodily into the frail and helpless flesh of humans. No other religion truly embraces the concept of the Incarnation, that the Infinite and Immeasurable Divinity could embrace and inhabit the flesh of people. It is nothing to be afraid of, quite the contrary it is a time to rejoice!

Hence why the Angels of the Annunciation said, "Let heaven and earth rejoice, and good will amongst Men!"

Those Christians who rely on fear tactics are really just politicians seeking power in the community, and they have nothing to do with religion, they are merely using religion as a pretext.

True religion is uplifting and spiritually edifying, if it was not, people would not stick to it..

as Tool sang, "If there were no rewards to reap,
No loving embrace to see me through this tedious path Ive chosen here,
I certainly wouldve walked away by now."

what does god think about santa?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SuchFriendsAreDangerous again.

Santa is sorta, the representation of god: old man, white beard, the God for atheists and gullible little children.

That's quite true. I never talked to someone who I have perceived as a genuine catholic blaming anything on the Jewish or others. Perhaps being brought up by a bona fide 'once nun to be' helped me not only being tolerant of others, but also developing mutual respect for our deeply contrasting views on religion.

His origin is actually Eastern Orthodox and not western at all, which is how in the west things got all fucked up and commercial.

The cultural myth of Santa, who has a dozen names and identities across Russia, Eastern Europe, Greece and Asia Minor (the realms of Eastern Christianity) is related to the Saint's tradition.

He is a saint, who came around towards to end of the great Fasting season of Advent, to reward people for their faith with prayers, blessings and treats, much like a priest. This is really much the same with ALL SAINTS in the Orthodox tradition, they all provide a kind of benediction accommodated by some kind of material treat. In the orthodox tradition of fasting, these treats are often food related. Christmas candies and cookies and cakes all originate in the tradition of breaking the fast after midnight mass.

It is true that Catholics (and indeed all Christian sects) hate Jews, but it is not, as is commonly beleived, because the Jews killed Jesus, it is in fact because we Christians plagarized Judaism in the creation of Chritianity, and yet now we are embarrased by the derivative nature of our faith and wish to conceal our theoligical theivery but erading any trace of the Jewish religion.

Furthermore, the core of Catholicism isn't that Jesus died for our sins, the core belief that sets Catholicism apart from all other religions is the mystery of transubstantiation. Unlike other Christians whose cannibalism of Jesus is symbolic, the true beleiving Catholic literally commits ritual cannibalism, idealy every Sunday morning a couple of hours before lunch.

The mystery of transubstantiation is simple. You say, "What the fuck?" and look to Wycliffe for a reassuring shrug.

Theologically Christianity hates all other religions, not just Judaism. Things are not that simple because the very reason the nazis wanted to exterminate all jews in the first place was because they were growing to be a way too self-sufficient entity theologically and consequently economically in a country which was already starting to feel the economical (not financial) strain, therefore they had to go in a productive way. If the Jews were in the same position as the ruling class back then, they would have naturally done the same thing. Theology is just an after taste of a balance of power, not its starting point.

Thats only between protestants and orthodox.

In the Orthodox Church we equally believe in the Actual Presence, whereas protestants of American and western European christianity believe in the symbolism of the Eucharist.

The idea is not merely cannibalism, as the Actual or Real Presence is not just to eat, but in general, so that the Body of Jesus is actually in the room, and you are actually standing before and praying to the true body and presence of God. It is very mystical experience, which makes Christianity a very metaphysical religion, which protestants have stripped from their religion and as a result, have a very deprived and even bankrupt form of Christianity which explains a lot of about Americand and protestant christian hypocrisy..

further, I myself wonder if we have the whole interpretation of human sacrifice in the Americas all wrong. I mean, think about it, if five hundred years from now some archeologists broke into an Orthodox church, full of icons of a crucified Jesus, and get access to the idea of communion, they would think perhaps, under a misunderstanding, that we ACTUALLY killed a person each sunday for our service, which technically is the belief of the Church, that Jesus Christ killed and resurrected body ACTUALLY and LITERALLY sits on the altar. So I was thinking, perhaps the human sacrifice of the Americas is not literally killing people, but something akin to Christian communion. After all, we base a good deal of our inferences on Mesoamerican religion on our own intepretations of indian iconography and motifs carved in stone.

It is terrible how Christianity as made this mistake. The TRUE belief of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is the sole incarnation of ANY and EVERY possible God which a person might worship, so that is not the opposite of all religions, it is the fulfillment there of.

I dunno. I grew up in a Christianity, and in my experience the reason most Christians are so aggressive and seemingly hateful against other beliefs and religions is because they're so afraid of hell. I don't deny that there are hate and superiority complexes involved--and often their reactions are extremely ignorant, obviously--but I think more often than not, it's not genuinely hateful, but out of fear for the other person. It can be incredibly blinding when that's all you know.

But I know my share of Christians who are just plain hateful and unwilling to think, so that exists too.

I wouldn't call it a mistake, more a successful and deeply unfair operation, which is bound to change someday.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sarramkrop again.

I didn't say we don't hate other religions, merely that that is our reason for hating Jews. Obvioulsy Christians hate all other religions just as every Christian sect hates all the others.

Sure, got that. Your post came across like it was a particularly sore point for christianity at this moment in time, which is a kind of an outdated way of thinking by now. If anything the jews seem to be joining forces with christianity in hating anything else that doesn't stem from the same parables, in the current climate, so I was trying to understand what was the point being made.

It's been a sore point for nearly 2000 years!