anyone hate hip hop?
 

OK, "hate" is pretty strong. I can't entirely dismiss an entire genre. However, damn near everything I've heard is pretty...dumb. I always feel like a square cracker when I recognize this dark spot in my taste. It's embarassing, to be honest. But I can come clean here, no?

And don't give me that "There are some intelligent rappers" shit, because I haven't heard them. Even everyone's beloved Tribe Called Quest has plenty of raps about hoes and bitches, and aren't above some dippy "We Can Get Down" shit. yo yo yo. Even if there was a rapper with something to say, he/she would have to be tight for a whole album, then another album, etc. Eventually, they'd run out of shit to say. In a way, I feel bad: rap has more words per square inch vs. rock, and requires more talent. Maybe this is why all the rappers fail.

Ever look at the lyrics to a rap song? Even a tune you like and think might be okay looks painfully illiterate on paper.

And it's all about the words because the music is either a) stolen, or b) a riff that gets repeated 5000 times in three minutes. Isn't it amazing? Any rap group that uses "real insturments" (oooo!!) automatically gets praise? They're fo' real. Gimme a fucking break.

new hip hop rap, whatsoever, yes.

old, no.

MBV covered Public Enemy.

Public Enemy rules.

when one disagrees with another about a genre of music, they serve
themselves best by letting what they hold up as a shining example of
genius within that genre speak for itself. and herrrrrrrre we goooooooo....

"Children's Story", Slick Rick

Once upon a time
Not long ago,
Where people wore pajamas and lived life slow
Where laws where stern and justice stood
And people were behavin' like they ought to - good
There lived a little boy who was mislead
By another little boy
And this is what he said:
"Me and you tike, we're gonna make some cash"
"Robbin' old folks and makin' the dash"
They did the job
Money came with ease
But one couldn't stop!
It's like he had a disease,
He robbed another and another
And a sister and a brother
Tried to rob a man who was a D.T. undercover
The cop grabed his arm
He started actin' erratic
He said:
"Keep still boy, no need for static"
Punched him in his belly and gave him a slap
But little did he know
The little boy was strapped
The kid pulled outta gun
He said:
"Why'd you hit me?"
The barrel was set straight for the cop's kidney
The cop got scared,
The kid, he starts to figure:
"I'll do years if I pull this trigger"
So he cold dashed
And ran around the block
Cop radios in to another lady cop
He ran by a tree
There he saw the sister
Shot for the head
He shot back but he missed her
Looked 'round good
And from excpectations
He decided he'd head for the subway stations
But
(what)
She was coming and he made a left
He was running top speed
Till he was out of breath
Knocked an old man down
And swore he killed him
(sorry)
Then he made his move to an abandonded building
Ran up the stairs up to the top floor
Opened up a door
There guess who he saw?
(who)
Dave! The dope fiend shootin' dope
Who don't know the meaning of water nor soap,
He said:
"I need bullets, hurry up, run!",
The dope fiend rolled back a spankin' shot gun!
He went outside but there were cops all over
THen he dipped into a car;
A stolen nova
Raced up the block doin' 83
Crashed into a tree
Near University
Escaped alive
Though the car was battered
Rat-a-tat-tatered
And all the cops scattered
Ran out of bullets
And he still had static
Grabbed the pregnant lady
And pulled out the automatic
Pointed at her head
He said the gun was full of lead
He told the cops:
"Back off, or honey here's dead"
Deep in his heart
He knew he was wrong
So he lets the lady go
And he starts to run on
Sirens sounded
He seemed astounded
And, before long the boy got surrounded
He dropped his gun
So went the glory
And this is the way I have to end this story
He was only one teen in a madman's dream
The cops shot the kid
I still hear him scream
This ain't funny
So don't ya' dare laugh
Just another case about the wrong path
Straight and narrow
Or your soul gets cast
Goodnite.

"Y'all tucked in?"- what a great song. Rick the ruler!

I always admired these guys use of funk samples;

totally, here's Live From The Plantation by Mr. Lif, who for my money is the best lyricist doing social commentry stuff in hiphop or any style of music that i'm aware of, today.

*alarm ringing*

"Oh my fucking god man, ahhh. fucking serious"

Jesus Christ, man. already?

Man, time flies like a motherfucker."

Rise and shine!

Yet another day to toss away

What does my clock display?

It says eight

Shit, I'm late for work again, so then

I dip with my pad and my pen

Step into the work place with my work face

Wince at my time card cuz I'm scarred

Mad cuz I sacrifice my day and gets me

A trifling hourly wage of six fifty, nifty

Now I'm off to slave quarters

With a whole bunch of other people's sons and daughters

Working so they can be mothers and fathers

Laboring real hard, hoping the boss offers

More petty cash to his bums and paupers

Kissing his ass cuz they hoping they prosper

Here's the math:

You work a thirty a day, away

The government takes a thirty a check, correct

You go home and drink cuz you don't get

An ounce of respect, and your spirit is wrecked

Life is a gift to be enjoyed, every second every minute

It's temporary, not infinite

Yet I find myself looking at the clock

hoping for the day to fly by, so I ask myself "Why?"

I'm doing this remedial work for second graders

I'm an educator with mega-flavor, so

Maybe I should just jump up and get ill

Maybe I should let these people know they're being killed

Maybe I should try my very best to chill, and get paid

Cuz I gotta pay bills, raa!



"Excuse me brother, can you please stop making that noise

so I can talk? Thank you. Now the boss says he wants you to come up

with more copies of these checks, and the last thing he wants is you to

move the desk to the basement, and can I have this stapler?"

("Hey there champ, big boss man says you been late

3 days in a row, better sharpen up")



Aw, this fucking place sucks - same shit everyday

Like to wring the boss' neck though, if only dreams could come true



Dead boss, somebody call Red Cross

I guess he got caught up in my mental holocaust

How much did it cost?

Just a little piece of my mind for peace of mind

"But he's bleeding!"

Oh no, leave him. He'll be fine

He'll heal on his own

if you just give him some time

Considering the fact that his face is misaligned

His legs are over there lying right next to his spine

"Lunchtime!" Huh? Oh, Jesus, must have been daydreaming

My boss walks by, he's looking just like an asshole

Smiling because he jerks niggas for minimum cash flow

He's cool to my face but I swear I heard him laugh though

Tickled by the fact that I'm the modern day Sambo

And just when I think that I'm about to go Rambo

I call up my man and he says he understands, yo

We all are being murdered by a similar process

Whether you work at the candy store

Or slave at the office

The purpose of our life is just to serve the economy

They misinform our minds to paint a picture of harmony

But if you listen then you know that shits out of tune

Cuz the function of our life is just to work and consume

Fuck reaching out to help the next, there ain't any room

Just close your eyes and block your ears and march to your doom

But since I really ain't getting paid for my time

I pulled out my pen and started writing a rhyme

Can't you see that I'm busy, jerk?

Don't you dare approach me with busy work

Take another step and get hurt

By the man that embodies mad years of anger

A cool bro, soon to be the Boston Strangler

Everything inside of me is about to erupt

Cuz a righteous individual just likes to corrupt

I knew he'd lock me up if I started a brawl

So I deaden, and I punch the clock the fuck off the wall



"Yea that's right motherfucker

you can't keep underpaying people and mistreating them all the time

That's gonna resort to crime.

As a matter of fact, you know what?

Faks, yo cut this motherfucker, man."



9-1-1

Look up Aesop Rock.
He is a genious.
His beats aren't boring and his lyrics are close to perfect.

so you don't know who any intelligent rappers are, but you don't want us to tell you who they are because you haven't heard of them before?

stop being embarrased about not liking rap, just be cool about it, rather than coming up with a series of arguements that are based on ignorance and predjudice.

cool i can't wait to hear it, what's your myspace again? have you made a CD yet?

I'm not even getting into this one. I find evollove's post terribly ignorant. That or just a joke. I can't see how someone can't be joking with those views.

my rhymes, son!

I am premanufactured beats and lines about dope watches, scandanavian scarves dyed with human blood, and science class skeltons carved from elephant tusks. Hip hop puppet master apprentices ripping rhymes from wheel of fortune's rhyme time and following fools in line to the end of the world. Where little boys fall in love with little girls and men fall head over heels for women driven by revolution. Where ideas grow like trees, starting young, strong and thick to grow and blossom into something beautiful, then die when every one forgets about it.

thanks, every time i got to your myspace page it's got a new web address.

the hip hop i like, i really like but it's not something i listen to everyday.

it's pretty stupid to say everything sucks, although i'm pretty sure there has to be a lot of people who don't find any positive characteristics in it. i mean, if someone loves music with emphasis on melody, like harmonically complex stuff, big arrangements and don't pay attention to lyrics, then they probably won't like hip hop.

that said, if you really like music, then there's probably some hip hop act that's going to speak to you, there has been so many artists doing so many different things that saying there's not a single good hip hop act is just plain ignorant.

A modest political rhyme of my own.

An iridescent message from the very last lungs with the very last breathe it was the very last sung. It was a song of hope, before a pile of rubble, all left over when humanity stumbled. I guess that's the way that the human mind works, always believin that the living life lurks, but it's gone. All done. Like a heavy smoking gun. Hitting like a hammer down upon everyone. They say of the Cold War that Ronny Reag won. But they didn't believe it and neither did their sons. Ghosts around the corners and hiding in caves. Ghosts in the telephones and floppy disk saves. Are they really the cowards that they seem to portray? Or is this all the joke in which the money game's played? Fuck, I guess this is the shit I'll never know. Ask to many questions and yr freedoms get towed. But you might just say that things are lookin up that we're just digging out of some dirty ass slump. I wish I had your confidence, I wish I had yr hope but remember to keep in mind that lonely singing dope.

the Revenge of the Robots DVD is really cool if you like Mr. Lif, Aesop, El-P and the rest of Def. Jux.

Not so much now with computers etc but imagine how hard it would have been to produce a hip hop song on 1980's equipment.

Listen to the Rza's production on Wu-Tang's first LP and tell me that's not talent. Mind boggling, but still head nodding shit.

You don't have to like hip hop, as everyone has their own personal taste but to say the whole genre is worthless is silly.

WORD!

Mr. Lif really has a thing for letting the words flow and making complete sense. Listen, read and learn, little puppies.


To answer the original question of the thread: No I don't, and in fact yesterday was Wu Tang Clan day chez sarramkrop, and I was blasting their back catalogue, various tracks from mixtapes and then it was Ghostface Killah, Company Flow, De La Soul, Sensational, Erik B. Anbd Rakim and Mr. Lif himself before bedtime.

Ever look at the lyrics to a Sonic Youth song?


ZING!

There is some brilliant Hip Hop out there evollove.
A lot of good stuff on Anticon and Lex to name a few.

Here's a link I dedicated to someone on the forum a couple of weeks ago. Got no reply as usual.
It's a good laugh, which I think is important in Hip Hop, considering the macho attitude and seriousness you normally find in this genre.

http://www.youtube.com/Dan Le Sac vs Scroobius Pip 'Thou Shalt Always Kill'

I have been in a mood for listening to the Fugees. The Score is a good album.

edit- If you do not consider Kanye West somewhat intellectual, then you are really missing a lot. I mean I am not really into hip-hop or rap, but there are rappers out there that I like. I used to think like this, when I was fourteen, but I have heard some great rap songs. Trust me there is.

Anticon stuff can be good good but at the same time it infuriates me no end. Anyway, as far as the machismo goes, here's some gay hip hop links:

Purple Rain
http://www.myspace.com/sonnyloubang

Grand Royal
http://www.myspace.com/grandroyal718

In New York (where else?) there's also a Hip Hop cabaret act, whose name I don't know but i read about it somewhere. Here you can find more information on gay hip hop:
http://www.io.com/~larrybob/hiphop.html

Haha!

This gay hip hop number is for Tokolosh:

DUTCHBOY – Funky Bisexual (B.Q.E. Remix)

It's taken from this compilation

Much appreciated, but where's the link?

Go on the phat family label website and find it.

truthfully, i can listen to a hip hop track, and i like some anticon stuff, but listening to a whole hip hop record is one of the most boring, excruciating things on the planet.

Public Enemy sampled a drum loop for an interlude on It Takes A Nation... My Bloody Valentine used that same drum loop on Instrumental B (and added lots of ethereal atmospherics). Madonna also used that same drum loop on Justify My Love.

That drum loop didn't originate from Public Enemy (though they 'discovered' it). And besides, using your logic, Justify My Love would also be a Public Enemy cover.

I like lots of hiphop. I own most of the 'classics' (I love Original Gangster, Strictly 4 My Niggaz, Fear Of A Black Planet, Low End Theory, 36 Chambers, Moment Of Truth, etc). But I've come to the conclusion that, at the moment, the genre is mostly infantile horseshit.

A typical mainstream song will consist of an odious idiot bragging about how hard he is and how big his penis is over a simplistic, repetitive beat. True, Rakim only had one subject: 'I'm the greatest', but at least he tried to say he was the greatest in as imaginative or witty way as possible.

I particularly dislike 'conscious' hiphop. As far as I can tell, a typical 'conscious' song will consist of an odious idiot bragging about how intelligent and conscious he is over a boring jazz/soul sample (without ever saying anything that is intelligent - simply stating that he is 'intelligent' ad nausea).

Hiphop gets away with it too often. Recently (sorry for this British example), Bloc Party criticised Oasis for their dumb lyrics. Yet they love Lethal Bizzle, a rapper whose latest album flaunts every negative Black stereotype: violent ('I'll put your face through glass!', 'shoot it! shoot it!'), misogynistic ('Treat them like dirt, don't care if they get hurt!') and full of criminality. I suppose its ok if Black people use lyrics like these because they don't know any better eh?

Anticon stuff is for people who are scared of the real deal, though. So, listening to another tape rewinded with bits of noisey things on top is less excruciating than listening to a whole hip hop record? You never fail to fascinate me atsonicpark.

So if you haven't heard them, then they don't exist? Or because you haven't heard them, you just don't want to hear about them?


I fail to see how any genre of music leads to burn out any faster than any other. Nor, do I understand why anyone would deny the great art somebody has made if they happen to go on to make shit later. I can fully listen to early David Bowie, Echo & the Bunnymen, or Rolling Stones albums without once concerning myself with how much they later sucked. The phrase "Even if there was a rapper with something to say" reeks mightily of a troll to bait somebody into calling you a racist, by implying that a rapper with something to say is such a novel idea. However, it's so patently ridiculous, it's not worth the accusation you seek.


The lyrics to nearly all popular music look pretty silly on paper without music. '60s comedian Steve Allen did a routine on "Laugh In" where he would recite the words of a popular song as if they were "serious" poetry. This argument is nothing new, and hardly unique to hip hop. However, I think you will find that the lyrics to "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, "Welcome to the Terror Dome" by Public Enemy, and "In Midst of Struggle" by Dalek, to cover three different eras of hip hop, all read quite well off the page, and are densely "literate".


Ah, so we have the old "sampling is stealing" argument. I hear the RIAA is hiring.

evollove: you suck and your thread gave me a headache

Maybe I am scared of the real thing, but some of the Anticon stuff I've heard is actually interesting to listen to. I mean, that one Clouddead record that's basically an ambient album with bits of rapping on it? Genius. And Themselves - "Good People Check" might be one of the best songs ever written...

Oh, you're all too easy to piss off.

Rap is for retards. Nuff sed.

(although Public Enemy beat out SY in the famous villiage voice pazz and jop poll, so maybe i'll check that out, despite the fact that they're anti-semetic mushbrained morons)

Public Enemy's Fear Of A Black Planet or Apocalypse '91... are definitely worth checking out. The former is so dense musically, a collage of hundreds of sounds (they sample everything from funk to metal; and then add samples of drills and sirens over the top!) crafted together in such a seamless way. It's so chaotic and noisy yet oddly danceable too (big basslines!). Chuck has a great voice too...

the anti-semetism claims were tenuous at best

read chuck d's so-called book and get back to me.

yep, i've read that, still the accusations were tenuous.