Sonic Youth Gossip - Is it possible to share a deeper connection with people? If so would you want to?

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Is it possible to share a deeper connection with people? If so would you want to?

I've been thinking about this lately.

I've come to realize that people don't really know me or love me or like me or hate me. Their emotions are directed at their concept of me, or if you prefer their mental image or their logical construct of me, the me that exists in their head. I notice this a lot in any artistic works I do. What they get out of it as the observer and what I get out of it as the creator is so completely different. What I am trying to convey is so distorted by the difference's between their reality and mine, I wonder what is the point of public self-expression if nobody understands? Is it the hope that someone will listen and hear it or look and see it the same way you do? Or is it to avoid being chastised for artistic masturbation?

I've noticed another thing. People seem to define these golden moments that define who people they know are. There are things in my life that people will refer to me with. That is me to them, in a nutshell. There were photos from one such event, and a friend of mine took some from my brother that were of me to get copies made. To them it seems, that is the Julian they know and love. The one in that picture. But that isn't me. That Julian doesn't exist. The only Julian that exists is the one at this very moment.

But people aren't existed in the present existent julian, they are more interested in the Julian who played that show that one time and made a lot of noise, or the julian who said that funny thing one time.

An ex-girlfriend of mine kept a picture of me from that very same event. She was deeply infatuated with that concept of me, the me in that picture, the concept of this long-haired rock and roll loving good natured gentle spirit. Not me. So I eventually broke up with her.

Can you truly know someone? Would you want someone to really know you? It seems kind of scary, having your very soul exposed to someone like that.

Look at it this way, reality have no place in life. You can either exist in reality ,taking things as the seem and appear to be, or you can live, and make things how you want them to be and be content. As long as you're living, you can do whatever you want, but when you start existing in reality is when you have to face it.

Ok, I hope that makes some sense, I'm not a licensed philosopher.

I usually try to keep myself away from people, knowing me. Because of past experiences, but I do think you can know someone, only if you and the other person are willing to share everything, and clear some things in the process. But as humans, we always change, so I might be a miserable prick today, maybe two months from now, I will not be like that, and will be more content. It is hard for me to open up to people, for fear of them knowing me. I feel they should have their opinion of me in certain ways, than the real me. I hope this is clear.

If anybody really knew me, they would be terrified.

Life would really sucks ass without "deep connections" with people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laila

If anybody really knew me, they would be terrified.

:D
Nice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laila

If anybody really knew me, they would be terrified.

...only because they would inevitably discover your colostomy bag...

dont u hate it when u write a big post and you get half ass replies :P
exception:swa

i prefer concepts of people. doesn't hurt as much.

This thread makes me sad. It only emphasizes the lack of any deep connections, or any connection worth mentioning, that I share with anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swa(y)

What he said.

And also: stop whining!

To care about and for someone and to be cared for, I imagine, would mean a great deal to me. I think it might give me a purpose: to care for someone. The benefit of that connection would be two fold: It gives you a sense of purpose in life, and it makes you feel accepted, and ultimately happy. I use the words "sense" and "feel" because, in relation to this thread, those benefits of the connection might not be real, if someone doesn't know the real you and only a concept of you, but the point is the same.

I know I have people that care for me, but I don't feel that sense purpose or happiness, but that is probably because I don't feel that those people know the real me, but only a concept of me that I find wrong. Essentially, they are caring for me for the wrong reasons, and at the same time I don't know if I care for them.

Does any of that make sense?

That's true, but I'm not saying that I want someone to have this or that concept of me. I am however saying that I don't want people to have a certain concept of me, you know? I don't want someone to think of me in a way that I don't want to be thought of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

But for someone to know the real you, it could be argued that they would have to share loads in common with you in the first place, because only then could they actually understand you. And even if that is true, who would want to be with an exact replica of themself anyway? It's sort of a lose/lose situation. I may never understand how people end up getting married to one another, and stay that way for an extended period of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luxinterior

Read my other post. That is more of what I meant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

Yes I think like that, but then I also think no one can ever truly know one. They can only know you through your actions, when they see you. I mean I can come off as stupid, as most of the times, but in reality that isn't me. I just think no one will ever know you, but then again we want people to know us. However let me emphasize that we as humans are always changing, and what we think we are today, we may not be a year, two, three, ten, twenty years from now. Therfore no one can actually know us.

I can be pretty manipulative and calculating at times, and this has become even more apparent to me ever since I started working at my new job. Sometimes it backfires on me. For instance, I've managed to get on just about everybody's good side at my job, but in the process some of these people have really come to like me, and I have to wonder how much. I feel odd leading people on, though I would feel worse if I had ever been dishonest, which I don't think I have been, technically. My coworkers are basically the only people I hang around now, and it's only because I work with them. If I had met them outside of work, I highly doubt I would've thought twice about any of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swa(y)

you just realized this? seriously? of course no one really ever really "knows" you, if only because they arent you, but they can have a pretty strong concept of you...wether its a valid concept or not. they can like, love, hate whatever that concept is they have of you. they can love/hate whatever it is they percieve you as.

its just like, no one really knows what it would be like to be someone else...we can only have ideas.

do you think you know yrself? you might...i certainly dont know myself, at all. i have an idea as to where i stand on certain things, but even those stances change from time to time. i like to think of myself as SOMETHING else constantly shaping this walking talking screaming shitting eating thing called swa(y). its not exactly like that...but why the hell not look at it that way? it works for me.

my mom has always said that im my biggest critique. probally true. sometimes i hate what i see, other times i totally love it. and whats odd is i want BOTH man, just depends. sometimes i wanna look negatively at myself. remind myself that im being an asshole and to stand back for awhile and learn to enjoy my own company again and try and figure out why ive been an asshole to other people or whatever it is ive been doing, and yeah, sometimes i love myself...big time.

just depends.

and ive never really cared about, atleast in my real life, trying to publically express myself to get anyone to undrestand anything..well okaye...maybe i have...BUT BUT BUT, ive always been far more interested in getting people to THINK about shit. maybe theyll come up with something as a result of something ive done or said thats totally unrelated to to whatever idea it was i THOUGHT i was trying to express...but still ends up being something interesting enough to talk about or try and figure out or whatever.

i try, often time fail, but try and not hate anyone too much for whatever idea it is i have about them. ive met racist, druggies, border line whores, homophobes...some of which ive actually liked. i mean, why not? sometimes i say things, or do things that i might not necessarily agree with just to get a reaction out of folks, or to get them to think about shit they might not normally want to, or even think about considering. for all i know, the forementioned types of people may be doing the same shit, and four years from now could be totally different sorts of people...or...atleast ill perceive em completely differently. also met several punk rock kids, obviously intelligent sorts, sonic youth fans, dirt road scholars/philosophers that ive flt like i completely hated. atleast at whatever given moment in time our paths have crossed. ya know, people id normally be associated with, or people would assume that id get along with really well. i dont know. i like people that attempt being something or saying something worthwile far more than i do those that are doing or saying something worthwhile cause have the time its just in the latter groups nature to be as such, to where the former feels the constant need to reinvent themselves. to see something that isnt there in the minds of others and try and manipulate it.

changing minds is always a fucking powerful thing. even if someone changes someones elsees mind to something they unintended to change it to.

its almost scarey.

we're equally super fragile and super powerful creatures.

this was somewhat unrealted to what yr getting at, or atleast what i think yr getting at julian, but maybe ya get what im trying to say...if not thats cool.

i just hope i dont ever figure "it" out. not knowing is so much more beautiful a thing, in my opinion.

stay free dude....

-s.

It isn't quite that I've just figured it out. I've long hailed myself as the "person that nobody knows and nobody understands," I've just been meditating a bit more on it recently.

The sheer ridiculously of people cherishing these pictures of me.

It isn't that I don't cherish pictures. I think they are historical documents, and can be great ones. Family pictures tell a story, form a narrative, and reminds us of we once were.

I think what ticked me off was that my friends seem to be more about the past than the present. Like they have ended their friendship with me, but still have it with their concept of me.

I don't really care what I project to people. I don't want to be though of as "that guy that is really nice" or "that guy that is a complete jackass."

Maybe "that human being who has a lot of different aspects and isn't ever changing or ever stagnant." I think I could accept that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

))<<>>((

Nice !@#$%!

Like I'll poop into her butthole and she'll poop it back... into my butthole and then we'll just keep doing it back and forth. With the same poop. ...

i think it is possible to have a connection with someone for sure. i have with some people but i find that you dont really choose the people you have one with.

Other people don't know you. But can you say that you know yourself?

while this thread has devolved into poop, let me throw this at you, what if everyone was networked, mandatory all access in/out 24/7. the technology probably isn't that far off. can't be that hard to 'grow' some crystalline structures throughout the brain that parallel its normal functioning, hook that up to some small wireless chip which is rad by the former cell phone network...may bemorgellons disease is an experiment along these lines that went out of control. or is proceeding exactly as foreseen.

nobody knows me.

the metal mask takes care of that.

I think Harry Potter and Voldemort had a pretty deep connection with the scar and shit. He actually knew what Voldemort was thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

I think Harry Potter and Voldemort had a pretty deep connection with the scar and shit. He actually knew what Voldemort was thinking.

I think I love you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luxinterior

I think I love you.

'Bout time you wised up. Love is something Voldemort will never be able to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

'Bout time you wised up. Love is something Voldemort will never be able to do.

God, keep going, this is turning me on.

I also imagine Voldemort hasn't gotten any in years. He's probably really horny for you, Lux.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

I also imagine Voldemort hasn't gotten any in years. He's probably really horny for you, Lux.

Remember in the fifth movie when he showed up in a suit? Hot.

Do I remember? Of course.

How about the young Tom Marvolo Riddle in Chamber of Secrets. He was pretty cute.

He really was. Horrible actor (at least in that movie), but man, the things I would do to him in Knockturn Alley...

Quote:

Originally Posted by luxinterior

He really was. Horrible actor (at least in that movie), but man, the things I would do to him in Knockturn Alley...

geek looks good on you.

So first we'll have to find out if even we know our true selves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luxinterior

How is your new job, by the way?

Oh, and to stay on topic:

How can someone ever get to know you if you are forever changing and evolving?
I don't try to understand anyone, I just take in what they put out there for me, never what's inside.
I guess, in a way, I feel the way about a person the way they want me to feel about them.
If they want me to love them or care for them, then they will act a certain way towards me.
If they want me to hate them, they will act a certain way towards me, and so on.
What they let out from their mind into the real world is the only thing I know is real.
I don't really care for what's inside of anyones mind, all I care is about myself and getting to know myself better, because i'm the only one who will ever know what it is like to be me.

etc.

hope I was of some help(and/or at least made some sense?), julian

Kinda like when you make friends with a shy person, you know?
Before you were friends, they didn't really say much
When you become friends, they act different around ya

i'm not sure if i am making much sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardinal Rob

So first we'll have to find out if even we know our true selves.

I think I know myself. . .

I don't really have a concept of who I am, I just am. I don't really class myself in any group or anything. I know what I'm thinking, I know what I like, I know my hang ups.