the democratic primaries
 

need their own thread without the rest of the bullshit

so....

looks like buttigieg winning iowa as his campaign called it on monday—at least with 85% of the count published

if the little boy wonder ends up the nominee (lol) i won’t mind. he’s got intelligence and honor and decency that the orange shitbag lacks altogether.

same with the other survivors of this round: bernie, warren, biden, klobuchar. any of them will make a better president .

yes, people have their favorites. i have my preferences that vary on a daily basis depending on what’s going on. but any of them would get my full support should they win.

on to new hampshire...

with 97% of the vote reported bernie is closing the gap

All 50 Iowans voted?

:D

no, just about 170,000 registered democrats

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anyway, i’ve started seeing bloomberg ads this week, with “stop the chaos” as the main theme. late splash with lots of money

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meanwhile, speaking of money, warren seems to be running short of it while bernie raised $25mil in january alone.

exciting times.

recanvass in iowa, lol.

meaning they will hand-count everything from scratch

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also, looking at new hampshire polls, looks like it’s bernie and buttigieg ahead, this time bernie 24, booty 20, uncle joe 17, warren 13

be quicker to use VAR

Mayor Pete is a RAT. Bernie won Iowa and he declares victory before the results are in. Fuck his McKinsey consultant (he fixed the price of bread for companies for crying out loud) CIA affiliated bullshit. Absolute robot of a human being funded by the same old tired billionaires who was quoted as saying you do "anything" to get into power because it's a competition. I hear he is off the campaign trail currently in an effort to raise more funds and I wonder who he'll call up. When rich people in wine caves give their approval, all that means is that you're promising to not rock the boat or do anything that will threaten the failed status quo.

He is the establishment pick now (since Biden failed miserably, though they apparently didn't have much faith in him anyway), whose campaign helped to fund the app in the middle of the controversy. Why in the world was there even a transaction there? He has shown no genuine interest in people's needs, instead using shrill politician speak that everyone is fed up of hearing (if he even answers the question!) and furthermore, his biggest qualification is that he was a mayor of a town of 100,000 where all the black people hated him! Like, it is absolutely insane to me why anyone would think he is a good choice. Even Warren is better and I'm no fan of hers either.

i like bernie, but his supporters tactics are a fucking awful form of scorched earth.

they’d rather see trump win again than a moderate.

Exact same as here with Corbyn

Candidate ........... Pct. .... SDEs ..... Del.
Pete Buttigieg ...... 26.2 ... 564.02 —
Bernie Sanders .... 26.1 ... 562.44 —
Elizabeth Warren .. 18.0 ... 387.09 —
Joe Biden ............ 15.8 ... 341.16 —
Amy Klobuchar .... 12.3 ... 264.20 —
Andrew Yang ......... 1.0 ... . 22.23 —
Tom Steyer ........... 0.3 ... ... 6.76 —
Michael Bloomberg . 0.0 ... ... 0.20 —
Tulsi Gabbard .........0.0 ... ... 0.11 —
Michael Bennet ...... 0.0 ... ... 0.00 —
Deval Patrick ..........0.0 ... ... 0.00 —
Other 0.0 0.69 —
Uncommitted 0.2 3.97 —
Show fewer candidates
Total SDEs from 100% of precincts 2152.87

“State delegate equivalent figures show how support from caucus-goers after realignment roughly translates into the number of delegates each candidate will get at the state convention. That figure then translates into how many of the 41 pledged national delegates each candidate will get. In previous years, the Iowa Democratic Party reported only state delegate equivalent figures.”

On to NH!

With the three leaders basically sequestered for the past several weeks in impeachment hearings, while Joe was free to get out and campaign away, anyone surprised Biden finished a distant 4th?

I’m anxious to see if Joe suffers further separation going forward now that the others are free to get out the vote???

Funny since the democratic establishment acts like they'd rather have Trump than Bernie. Control of the party seems more important to them than winning.

And if your argument is "our focus should be beating Trump" then you should be supporting Bernie and chiding all these other candidates who couldn't possibly win against Trump. Like, please tell me how Pete, Warren or Biden have a path open to beat Trump? They don't, it will be Hillary all over again.

Bernie is a) anti-establishment b) can refute any points Trump makes about the economy and social issues c) mobilise and excite people to get out and vote d) has very little in the way of oppositional research against him compared to everyone else

It's not that Bernie supporters want Trump to win but that they're sick of fake politicians pandering to them while their lives continue to exist in a perpetual state of malaise. Also its insane to say they'd rather Trump won than a moderate when they held their noses and voted for Hillary in 2016 to stop Trump (more Bernie supporters supported Hillary than Hillary supporters supported Obama btw... not to mention that there are people out there who would flip from Trump to Bernie quite easily because its not about ideology to them).

But yes, they won't hold their noses this time and vote for Pete or Biden or whoever. Why would they? The dem party aren't automatically entitled to your vote if you don't like Trump. Western politics has been "you have to vote for the lesser evil" for decades and if not, you can fuck off and stay outside the political mainstream. Progressives don't owe the democratic party anything when they're constantly ignored and denigrated.

So the fact a huge chunk of the party's base won't vote for anyone but Bernie means you HAVE to go with Bernie to ensure turnout (not to mention the large portion of non-voters Bernie brings out). After all, our biggest concern should be beating Trump, right?

Basically I'm trying to save you guys from yourselves before something insane happens like Pete becoming the nominee. I don't think the party leaders have really reflected on why they lost and Trump won except "oh we'll campaign more in Wisconsin this time!". Clueless.

1. the polls and results are not showing overwhelming bernie support. moderate vs progressive split is about 50/50 in iowa, other states TBD.

2. please explain how corbyn saved you from boris

1. He leads in a lot of polls in 47 states. The moderate dem diehards will vote for whoever has (D) next to their name on the ballot, there's no need to worry about their support.

2. Bernie isn't going to lose on the basis of Brexit and an anti-semitism media scandal. It's a false equivalency, the outcome isn't determined just because they both happen to be on the left in countries with different politics. As much as I am a supporter of Corbyn ideologically, it is clear that Bernie is the better communicator on issues of solidarity and can relate to the problems of the working class, regardless of their identity (this means immigrants and non-whites, who are large parts of the dem voting bloc).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fXPvA2MKi0
I've heard him say this a few times but it still really strikes me when I hear it. He totally gets people's frustrations in a way none of the others do. He understands why people bought into Trump so much, but he can link it to social issues rather than lies, bigotry and scapegoating. I'm not saying he'd be the best candidate in every election but this one? He is the only one who makes sense. Like please make a convincing argument for any of the other candidates on how they could defeat Trump electorally but also culturally, I'm all ears there because I haven't heard any yet.

There were specific things Corbyn had going against him that don't relate to Sanders. I do increasingly see Sanders as having the strongest chance of beating Trump, but that's only because of how weak the rest of the field seems. I still see Trump winning, regardless of who he faces.

primaries are a CROCK OF SHIT and always have been


that is how two political parties run by the exact same super rich anonymous fucks makes it look like there is wide choice for the people, when they are actually thinning down the choices to the candidates THEY want to see in power, and which will further their agendas. I never vote in them, I suggest no one else do. we should ban the primary system entirely, along with the electoral college.

You are completely correct, Rob.

primaries are great. Get to vote 2x not just once. And, in open primaries, can cross over and vote in the other parties choice. Love to do that, as you can vote for the worst asshat who will lose to your guy in general.

Demonrail, have you researched Sanders at all? He's got a really weird history that makes him totally unelectable. Worst possible choice the Dems could make.

ilduclo don't you get tired of kissing the asses of the rich and powerful all the time?

"A really weird history that makes him totally unelectable" what nonsense. Are you gonna start telling me about some honeymoon vacation in the Soviet Union now? What about other candidates' horrible political (and personal if you're throwing that stuff in) history? You just don't like Bernie and you have no real reasons why beyond ideological difference. At least when I tear down Biden, Warren and Pete I can point to actual things they've done.

America elected Trump. Everyone was told over and over that he was unelectable and that Hillary would be president. Biden came 1st in most polls up until recently because he was seen as the most electable. He came 4th in Iowa. Electability arguments are bullshit, it is a constructed narrative that won't necessarily play out when people go to vote. You know, like the literal last election? Have you forgotten what happened then already?

Bernie beats Trump more than any other candidate when they are polled in match ups. You can look this up yourself but there's countless amounts of them that all say the same thing. But you just continue to ignore all facts and logic.

i’ve already been seeing “bernie sanders didn’t mind the gulags” thrown into online discussions, so get ready for more.

it’s gonna be gulag gulag gulag from here till november.

basically, whoever is the front runner will be smeared by their opponents and of course republicans will use all the ammo.

That's made up though. I fully expect the strategy against Bernie to be Red Scaring him. Hey, if it worked in the 50s!

Exactly, and Biden, Warren and Pete have more than enough truthful things to be attacked on, never mind the amount of smears that will come their way also.

“obama, kenyan muslim palling around with terroists!”

some assholes are still using that one. i think it began with hillary clinton actually...

this is precisely the problem im talking about. democrats covering each other with shit. berniebros booing hillary at the 2016 convention. it only helps republicans.

of course repukes will dig out all the oppo. but it doesn’t help when candidates destroy each other.

“bernie told me a woman can’t win” makes both bernie and warren look bad.

but honestly i think berniebros throw the most shit and are the most suicidal. by suicidal i mean: willing to let trump win if their candidate doesn’t get the nomination.

Please refer to my other post on your "suicidal" comment. I've explained why that is. And it also logistically means Bernie needs to be the nominee! Not giving my opinion on if it's right or wrong, its just reality currently.

Bernie supporters, for the most part, attack the other candidates on actual things they've done or said. This does not account for random twitter nonsense as all the campaigns have their share of aggressive people, yet the spotlight is always shone on "Bernie bros".

I've not made up anything I've said about the other candidates. When they can't attack Bernie on policy, they go for his supporters. That shows that there's not much depth in their critique of him. The fact that you even call his supporters "bernie bros" when he leads in polls with non-whites and younger women shows that it's a created narrative.

Also Bernie supporters were angry in 2016 because the process unfairly favoured Hillary. That primary was actually a lot closer than people want to remember or how it was spun at the time. It's because of Bernie pressuring the DNC to make the process more transparent that we now get the popular vote count for caucuses.

Hillary is out here saying "no one likes Bernie" yet she is never accused of dividing the party. It's one sided.

oh, a lot of people asked hillary to shut the fuck up this time around. she’s injecting her personal vendetta into this.

i understand the anger at the primary in 2016. still, bernie got his rules in place.

berniebros: the name stuck.

there’s also accusations of sexism against bernie. eg: https://www.harpersbazaar.com/cultur...nts-explained/

now, warren was trying to make that stick last debate and it might yet stick regardless of supporters demographics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...warren-debate/

the “secret” to smear is to make it stick. repetition repetition repetition.

btw, “6 women of color” have ditched warren, complaining of tokenism. feeds into warren’s fake race narrative.

see, everyone has their achilles heel, and when the shit begins to fly among democrats, all democrats lose because the shit begins to stick. including bernie, who is not a democrat but an independent running in the democratic primary.

It's easy to say that Bernie has a this or that problem because he doesn't feed into people's identity hang ups, he instead ties everything into wider social issues. That is what will win elections, not compartmentalising every group of people.

I don't get that article's issue beyond Bernie not kowtowing to whatever flavour of ultra purist identity politics they ascribe to. For example:
What is wrong with that statement? Motivation for a candidate being based more on their beliefs than their base identity is not controversial. It also backs its opinions up throughout the article with low level Bernie bashing tweets from bluecheck mark twitter nobodies. Oh, but it's the Bernie bros who are dividing everyone, I forgot! Better just call Bernie a sexist despite no evidence of him doing or saying anything sexist, instead just interpret what he says in the worst possible faith! I really don't see any of this being an issue for Bernie. What, is Trump going to stand on the debate stage and convincingly tell the public that Bernie is sexist? The man who around the world is known by the line "grab em by the pussy"?

Yep, Warren comes across completely as fake. Saw that earlier and it seemed like the most unsurprising thing ever. Bernie on the other hand is well known even by his detractors to be authentic in his beliefs. See how it all fits together?

I don't believe the primary should be a buddy buddy contest. People pick sides. The primaries being a "let the best fellow win, good chum" race is more utopian than any idea Bernie has that people say will never happen! The Republicans will do what they are going to do regardless. If nothing from the primaries stick, they will just find something else that will stick.

The primaries are a good opportunity to differentiate between candidates. Who has a real vision for the future? Who's got what it takes to defeat and reverse the stain that Trump has left on the world? Who truly believes in change and who just wants power? It would be a terrible idea to shrug and go "as long as they're democrat!" That is almost undermining the huge threat that Trump poses to people. It's time to face reality and really figure out how to defeat Trumpism once and for all, and make our case for who the best person to do that is.

watched almost all of last night’s debates

my favorite performers were bernie and klobuchar

bernie is always good. “we’re all gonna support whoever wins this damn thing” was a great opener. also he was great at dismissing his soviet honeymoon and defending his approach to health care (although i still don’t see how he’d implement it).

klobuchar had a breakout night as bernie’s policy alternative without being nasty to him.

warren i realize always sounds like she’s crying. she’s got a good head for domestic policy so i hope she’ll have a cabinet position in the future, but i don’t see her style as presidential.

the eagle scout eloquent as always but klobuchar tore him a new one with the cartoon business. also he stumbled when asked about legalizing drugs.

uncle joe is a nice man and i thought he did well last night but again i don’t see him as presidential material as he keeps tripping on his tongue. still better than the dotard.

yang always makes me chuckle and has some clever thing to say but i see his role is more as a gadfly and he could be another future cabinet member.

steyer has some good things to say but seems more of a policy analyst or nonprofit director than a candidate.

klobuchar’s hair and make up, and it has to be said because it’s teevee, a huge improvement over the nosferatu shadows of earlier nights.

most of the night i was wondering why she knew so much but i couldn’t see her taking off. and the finally when she made her fdr appeal i found myself looking at the donation buttons in her website, no joke.

I've read enough to know I wouldn't vote for him (although as a uk citizen that's hardly relevant). He does appear to have a dedicated following, though, that will at least come out for him, whereas when I look at the rest of the field, I just can't see enough people giving enough of a shit. I still think Trump wins big, regardless.

Klobuchar should run as a Republican. Pete can only talk in politician word salad, I got so annoyed listening to him all night. Still an insane choice.

Actually felt bad for Biden but also kinda laughed at him at the same time hahaha

He doesn't realise that no one cares about what he was doing in the Obama years considering it all ended up with Trump as president anyway

yes yes, bernie is the kwisatz haderach, neo in the matrix, bernie the vampire slayer, 2nd coming of the messiah, or the first one, depending who you ask, maitreya buddha, the chosen one (and only), in the flesh. got it. got it. got it.

It's not my fault they all stink except him! Offer better candidates, especially for an election as important as this one.

got it. got it. got it. etc.

Fine. I'll say some nice things.

Tom Steyer actually does seem like he cares about the things he's talking about. And he seems to be hinting towards being an ally to Bernie when he inevitably drops out!

Yang seems like a chill guy. I don't think he has the right solutions but I think he at the very least understands the optics. ALSO possible ally to Bernie when he inevitably drops out.

I don't mind that Buttigieg looks like a rat cuz rats are really cute and sweet animals!

Kim Gordon is backing Bernie:

Kim rules.

Sanders: "I'm in good health, but won't release my medical records"

yeah, sure

The separation has begun: Centrist voters cut Biden out of the picture