"what else would you expect of a white man?" -suchfriends

i want to say "self awareness" but i guess not.

oh well, i guess he'll be ok in the morning after a few tokes - i and i survive y'all!

and btw the winner of the race war was declared:



INDONESIA

he can be a kind and decent guy, muleheaded as fuck though; but what i'm guessing is this is probably too close for him to be able to think straight about it. OR he ran out of arguments and broke into a rage rather than acknowledge someone else's point of view--this wouldn't be the first time.

--
indonesia is FUCKED UP. i used to volunteer for amnesty international and the reports i read were atrocious shit.

don't forget guatemala though. read up on it if/when you can stomach it.

he's a great guy and usually the most sane and calm person on this board.

but we all have our limits. sanity aint easy.

i gotta work for it daily but after a decade of therapy i'll admit it's lots easier.

Soon the entire USA will be well-fucked by us Hispanics and everyone will be a nice mocha brown.
Then we will truly see the class warfare now hidden as race warfare.

Paul Mooney said "you can't out-fuck the Mexicans."

but you can make them die sooner

THE SECRET

holy shit, she's awesome!

she does this one too:

http://youtu.be/OZoDIIrp2r4

So in all seriousness to Suchfriends, was Zimmerman racist in your eyes?

The White Man Came, Across The Sea
He Brought Us Pain, And Misery

He Killed Our Tribe, He Killed Our Creed,
Then Suchfriends Turned Rasta, And Redeem His Sin

RUN TO THE HILLS!
RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!
ZIMMERMANS GETTIN LYNCHED!
BY NATTY DREADS TONIGHT!

suchfriends is a thoughtful man, and lives in a hotbed of never ending racial bullshit in LA. He is my friend. he gets worked up just like all of us. beware the ones that do not, for they do not care.

More racist than Chris Rock?

http://youtu.be/f3PJF0YE-x4

Was he an avid or vitriolic racist? No. Did he kill Trayvon out of some kind of racist spite? Probably not. Did he wrongfully profile Trayvon as an automatic criminal because of his seeming prejudice against black males as expressed in several of his comments in the previous 47 times he called law enforcement as a "neighbor hood watch"? Yes, absolutely. Was he wrong for getting out of his car and confronting a young man for doing nothing wrong but walking home? Absolutely.

The racism is in the aftermath. In the way people have just assumed that Trayvon was somehow up to no good. I've heard comments like "he was casing houses to rob" and at least insinuations that he must have been up to something. Why? Some teenagers don't have cars, they walk. I'm a grown ass man older than Zimmerman, I don't own nor do I want to own a car, and even at night I walk. Would I want some guy running up on me at night accusing me of shit? No. I am grown enough to know that right or wrong, I would be accused of being suspicious and have to explain myself. Unfortunately Trayvon was a teenager, and the impetuousness of youth and lack of experience clouded his better judgment. He should have sucked it up, took the humiliation on the chin, and smiled politely and told Zimmerman whatever he needed to hear. But he didn't. He decided to stand up for himself. He is dead now :(

The racism is that an all-white jury was selected, that it acquitted a man who had confessed to causing the death of an unarmed young man, who was also black. The structural racism is embedded in the reality that this is a common experience, that killing black people seems to come with impunity in this country, be it in the glaring racial inequality in "stand your ground" cases or the outrageous differences between the experience of whites and black folks in the "criminal justice system". The racism is in how so many people are shrugging their shoulders and claiming, "The system worked. It was due-process, calm down and let it go.." which actually only further fuels our sense of injustice, outrage, and disgust.

I would like to personally apologize to Bytor and !@#$%!. I don't like you. I like your tone and crassly condescending attitudes even less. However, in Rastafari we site up EVERY man and woman as a King and Queen. Every person is an Incarnation of God. We must treat them all with the humility we would give Our Lord. I have wronged you all by lashing out in my pent up fury and rage. I've scathingly attacked many of you, even with threatening remarks, which is disrespectful to your inherent Kingly dignity as a human person. I am sorry.

My beef is with God, who allows through free-will both tragedies like this too occur, and for people to have whatever boneheaded opinions their heart desires in response. I have to take it on the chin on this one the way in actuality Trayvon should have taken his indignation at Zimmerman on the chin. Had Trayvon took it and smiled like so many black kids before, he'd be alive today. If I continue to vent my rage without caution, it will continue to lead to sinning against the regal dignity of my fellow humans, and the wages of sin is the same death with Trayvon fell victim towards. Zimmerman killed him. If I don't calm down and reflect, my anger will kill me too..

okay, but be careful:



don't say he didn't warn you about it himself. though he was saying this to me at the time. which is now i think edited out from his original post.

look man i can't speak for bytor, but you don't have to apologize to me, you were only disrespectful to yourself and to the ideas you're presuming to advance here.

you didn't offend me/ insult me/ disrespect me/ hurt me in any way, you only made an ass of yourself and ridiculed your cause. and okay i laughed at your outburst and i'm sorry about that but it's the human response to absurdity.

regardless of who said what to whom you're the only one here who came across as a racist, painting human beings with the broad brush of skin color, in a most primitive fucking way. which opened the door to dead battery's comedy gold.

and yes you were angry and you said things you shouldn't have, but if you think that way in your head but just not say it, then your fundamental parameters are warped. in other words, i think you're okay, but your ideas are pretty shit and can get the best of you.

anyway bla bla bla, i'll discuss anything as long as we discuss ideas and not try to cover bad arguments with ridiculous personal attacks. cuz that's just drama and a waste of time.

i have little doubt that suchfriends is a good and honourable guy, but he, along with many others, have lost their minds over this issue. the media told them it was a racially motivated murder, and they got so emotionally attached to it, they were unable to detach and rationally asses it.

in the end he ended up revealing racism and misogyny - (we're all bitch made) - its no big deal, everyone will default to these type of moves under enough stress. it just sucks that the media lied so much and made this into something it wasn't.

also fuck all races, inanimate objects are clearly superior.

also - i said all this before but maybe it bears repeating. now is the time for us all to calm down. take deep breaths and then chill. best not to even try to debate in this thread anymore because its going nowhere.

omg im talking utter shit

i just want to see more race war and stir the hate

"If I were asked to characterize the present state of affairs, I would describe it as 'after the orgy'. The orgy in question was the moment when modernity exploded upon us, the moment of liberation in every sphere. Political liberation, sexual liberation, liberation of the forces of production, liberation of the forces of destruction, women's liberation, children's liberation, liberation of unconscious drives, liberation of art. [...] Now everything has been liberated, the chips are down, and we find ourselves faced collectively with the big question: WHAT DO WE DO NOW THE ORGY IS OVER?

"Now all we can do is simulate the orgy, simulate liberation. We may pretend to carry on in the same direction, accelerating, but in reality we are accelerating in a void, because all the goals of liberation are already behind us, and because what haunts and obsesses us is being thus ahead of all the results -- the very availability of all the signs, all the forms, all the desires that we had been pursuing. But what can we do? This is the state of simulation, a state in which we are obliged to replay all scenarios precisely because they have all taken place already, whether actually or potentially. The state of utopia realized, of all utopias realized, wherein paradoxically we must continue to live as though they had not been. But since they have, and since we can no longer, therefore, nourish the hope of realizing them, we can only 'hyper-realize' them through interminable simulation. We live amid the interminable reproduction of ideals, phantasies, images and dreams which are now behind us, yet which we must continue to reproduce in a sort of inescapable indifference."
-- Baudrillard

You don't know what you're talking about and neither does the media. Its not about if Zimmerman was racists, or if he was racially motivated to kill Trayvon (though in truth, there is some evidence of racial bias based on several of his comments to the police in his 47 previous complaints). It is about the structural and societal racism which was why it took over a month to press charges. Why the jury let Zimmerman off, even from accidental death, even when Zimmerman completely admitted to being the shooter. The evidence we had was a dead, unarmed teenager, who happened to be black, and a grown ass man who ignored the 911 dispatcher who told him not to confront Trayvon, and who had no necessary legal right to confront Trayvon in the first place. If it were two middle-aged white men, and one had killed the other unarmed white man, I would STILL demand at least a manslaughter conviction.



It remains what it always way, a cruel and brutal injustice. Again, AN UNARMED TEENAGER WAS WRONGFULLY CONFRONTED, ANTAGONIZED, AND SUBSEQUENTLY SHOT TO DEATH.

At least a jury in Wisconsin managed to get this one right. However, there are still plenty of boneheads who continue to comment and insinuate that 13 year old Darius was somehow involved in the stealing of the guns, even when by all accounts he was quite literally a good kid who had just moved into the neighborhood a month previous. Further he was AT SCHOOL the day of the break in, vouched for by all his teachers.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...teen-neighbor/

By the way, how does racism play into this? When a young, innocent black kid who was gunned down in cold blood bringing in his trash cans is lying dead in the street, the POLICE PUT HIS MOTHER WHO WITNESSED IT IN A SQUAD CAR FOR OVER TWO HOURS, THEN PROCEEDED TO TREAT DARIUS AS A SUSPECT INSTEAD OF A VICTIM AND RANSACKED HIS HOUSE, AND ARREST HIS OLDER BROTHER.


That is the structural and societal racism I am talking about dead_battery.

Out of everything SuchFriends has said throughout this tread, I do believe the above bothers me the most. Not because he thinks I'm a bonehead......because he possibly thinks our "SYG Friendship" tinkers on us agreeing on certain topics.

SuchFriends - I appreciate who you are (or at least who I think you are) and the things you believe in and stand for. However, for myself, it's okay if we don't always see eye to eye. Having differentiating opinions / beliefs is fine by me and in no way makes me think any less of you.

It was a sad thing that happened to Zimmerman / Martin. You have to feel for both families for this ordeal they've suffered. You can never truly know someones heart / intent in situations like this.

If someone was attacking me and I thought my life was in danger, I know I would try to protect myself and possibly use deadly force if needed......but I can't say for sure I could pull the trigger??? I hope and pray I'm never faced with this situation!

Again. Bytor, if you sincerely believe that trial was anything remotely resembling justice, than I can't understand you in the least, and can't help but assume the worst. I've enjoyed talking sports, and music, and culture with you, and you go a cool personality here. However, justice is a fundamental, core value for me. Its not just kind of casual disagreement. I have expressed a lot of heated emotion on this thread, and I regret none of it aside from the scathing tone or personal attacks I made against people. However, know this, a horrifying injustice was served in this verdict, and it will pain me for years to come.

What would justice be for you? Him going down for life? It was never going to happen on the basis that it was two people's story. One of whom didn't get to tell his story cos he's dead. Does that suck? of course it does.

The fact of the matter is that there's no concrete evidence to say Zimmerman killed for the sake of killing someone. If anything it's the opposite.

Put it this way-ignoring the situation surrounding it. If someone started kicking your ass and you had a gun on you, would you shoot back? Of course you would. Would you shoot to kill? hopefully not.

I dunno..this story is getting boring now and the fact of the matter is that this is one injustice (in your eyes) among the many, many more that have happened before and during this case. Why focus on this one? Cos the press decided to push this story over any other. Is there anything that makes this more special? No other than that it had a good tag line.

.....

Please don't exaggerate for the sake of trolling. I have on no less than THREE posts here said manslaughter would have been fine. I'd say a fair punishment for a shooting resulting in a death after a fight that the defendant started would be 1-2 years in Prison.



Yeah, but Zimmerman started the fucking fight! :mad:

Sounds like you're saying that because he was black, we have to understand that he's so sensitive and aggressive, even the slightest hint of "antagonism" can set him off.

How was he antagonized? HOW? He chose to walk over and beat the crap out of Zimmerman, who was a decent guy trying to protect a neighbourhood that had collectively called the cops 400 times over a 2 month period. Explain how Zimmerman was wrong in his decision to look out for and follow a suspicious person in a neighbourhood like that? Explain how he wasn't a decent man trying to protect his property and his neighbor's property and safety. Explain how, if I was standing in that alley, inert, for no discernible reason, it would not be PERFECTLY justifiable, and in fact, socially conscientious, to call the cops and follow me until they arrived at the very least?

Go on, explain how his "antagonism" justifies Trayvon leaping on him and beating the shit out of him? He was standing in an alleyway, the surrounded houses had been burglarized MANY times! Zimmerman was perfectly right to call the cops. Explain how Zimmerman started the fight?

He was also perfectly justified in firing his gun after getting lept on and punched repeatedly in the head.

Cos I can't see a single instance were this evil racist plot to murder an innocent black man then refuse to jail his killer actually HAPPENED, apart from in your mind and the media.

You decided there was structural racism because you want there to be. You don't want equality, because you bask in the righteous innocence of the oppressed. Your religion is a form of mystic christo ethiopian ethno nationalism. You're biased.

I think its a real shame what happened, and it's a real shame that blacks in the US are in the position they are often in. And that the mixture of squalor and poverty and racist prejudice are not simply a matter of the latter causing the former, as you need it to be. That is too simplistic and its not a model that can fix the problem.

http://www.chesnuttarchive.org/class...chingstat.html

From 1882-1968, 4,743 lynchings occurred in the United States. Of these people that were lynched 3,446 were black. The blacks lynched accounted for 72.7% of the people lynched. These numbers seem large, but it is known that not all of the lynchings were ever recorded. Out of the 4,743 people lynched only 1,297 white people were lynched. That is only 27.3%. Many of the whites lynched were lynched for helping the black or being anti lynching

do you really buy all this or are you playing language games?

me, i'm skeptical about anybody's sainthood but i think the evidence leans towards a physical altercation started by trayvon. otherwise-- decency, innocence, thievery, purple drank, wanna-be-cop -- i partially believe all that but also remain skeptical about all that. all we have is the evidence presented at the trial.

in other words, the defense convinced the jury that zimmerman had reason to shoot-- not based on "stand your ground," by the way, because zimmerman didn't have the choice to walk away with his back on the ground (supposedly), but based on classic self-defense. i read from the juror interviews that some jurors wanted to convict on something, no matter what, but just didn't have a legal justification to do so and they had to go with acquittal.

anyway, there are no saints and demons are quite rare. but there are HEROES OF COSPLAY!

yes, i honestly do think that.

based on Zimmermans past behaviour, based on listening to an hour long radio interview with his brother. based on the 911 call etc.

but lets say that Zimmerman walked over to him and said something - like what - "hey what the fuck are you doing?" i doubt he said anything worse than that. how does that excuse Trayvon leaping on him and beating the shit out of him? why didn't Trayvon walk the fuck away?

does anyone really think he went up to him and said "hey n***** wtf you doing here?" then started pushing him? nah. but lets say he did, Trayvons move here is still to walk the fuck away then call the cops later. a difficult move for anyone with a temper to make, but its the move you have to make.

it comes down to the fact that no matter WHAT the circumstances, when you start pummeling a person, especially a fat weaker person who is on the ground, they cannot be expected to just hope you stop and wait. you risk brain damage/death. best thing would have been if he had have shot him in the leg or shoulder or something.

we have to be on the side of people, in a bad neighbourhood that is robbed a lot especially, but ultimately in any neighbourhood - defending their privacy, property and civility. if we dont do this then civilization does not function. people have a right to be able to sit at home and NOT have to stand hidden behind curtains, watching those outside on the street, hoping they decide to move on.

it is not reasonable to stand still in an alleyway behind someones property and expect them to do nothing.

so if Zimmerman, or anyone, is living or protecting a neighbourhood that is constantly robbed, and they see someone acting suspicious - and even if the fact that that person is black is what tips him over the edge to go investigate - then he's doing nothing wrong.

if that's racial profiling, then fine. you can racially profile someone and not be prejudiced against their race if that race happens to - for whatever reason - indicate a likelihood for criminality. eg. there is a lot of them in that area, and a lot of them commit crimes. shit, as a good anti racist, you would understand this if you had ANY understanding of the shitty conditions they have to struggle to survive in.

its not fair to BLAME them for crimes simply BECAUSE of their race. but it is fair to be on your guard about ANY feature of an individual that you notice in that situation. oh, but guys like suchfriends, if they see a black guy in a business suit, immaculately clean and shaved and steady on his feet - they think he's as likely to be about to rob someone than a swaying, smoking disheveled looking man white smoking a cigarette in poor clothes? give me a fucking break.

There was no doubt Martin had his hands on Zimmerman......beating him.

If Zimmerman didn't have his gun and couldn't stop Martin on his own, there is every reason to believe Zimmerman would be dead and the masses would not know or care about someone named Martin......who would now be doing time because he beat someone to death.

I don't dispute any of what you said and you're absolutely correct......who knows?

However, in States where Stand Your Ground is an individuals right to self protection, what happened before hand doesn't matter. The only thing the court was concerned with / the only thing the Jury could consider......was Zimmerman in fear for his life at the moment he pulled the trigger.

In this case, the Jury unanimously said yes.

I don't know if this has been addressed, but WBAI was saying last night there were only 6 jurors. I thought a jury, especially a murder trial, is 12 people. How did that happen?

i didn't watch the trial but my dad told me the prosecutor did shit.

Once a bunch of rich white republican get killed for stand your ground this will change.

In the majority of states, a criminal trial uses a 12 member jury system. In those same states, civil trial systems uses six member jury's.

The State of Florida is one of the States that allow for a six member jury in criminal trials. It's my understanding this has to be mutually agreed upon between the two parties before the trial begins.

I read many legal experts thought the prosecution had the the six member jury "stacked" in their favor due to all the jury members being mothers.

Each side was represented during voir dire and the six women jury is what they came up with.

why did zimmerman gain 120 lbs before trial?

dude chunked up!

That was the weight he was putting on to try to be tougher in prison, if he was getting his ass kicked by a 17 year old kid, only imagine how bad it would have went for him locked up without his precious gun ;)

probably stress (high cortisol)

I am glad the internet, cellphones, digicams, and all that shit did not exist when Iw as 17. I'd probably just be getting released from prison, or a mental institution if they did.