Money is the incentive. No matter if taxes are higher or not, people want more money. That's what drives capitalism. You're basically falling under the assumption that capitalism doesn't work, or something.

Like voting for universal health care so that health care won't bankrupt said individual. Thanks for agreeing with me.

America, where jobs are always available and businesses never fail. You exaggeration of the strength of the individual makes me feel as though I'm giving the "life is hard" speach to a five year old.

In this sentence, you make it crystal clear that you know nothing about health care cost for even minor conditions. Health care isn't a commodity. You won't have time to compare and price check when you are having a heart attack.

This is a whole other topic that I'll just ignore. It only enphasises your opinion that generosity is a vice.

It's hard reconciling the first and last sentence here. Abolish old folks homes? It is their job for which you pay them. But if you don't have the money for that, you can just quit your job and take care of them yourself! Oh, but you need your job in order to provide for them. Again, you are realistic at all.

It is common amongst for the elderly of Native American tribes to be taken care of by the entire tribe.



The Constitution of the United States disagrees.

Health care debt is perhaps the biggest pitfall that prevents the poorest of the nation from being "individuals that can do something about it" and not "fat lazy assses."

I'm with swa(y).

That's because you distrust poor people.

poor people are the backbone of america.

Nope.

You said before that you oppose welfare because you believe that people abuse it. You distrust those people to use welfare to impove their situation.

I don't oppose welfare for people who need it, but I feel too much is dished out. I personally know quite a few people who abuse it. I understand it's a big help for many though.

If I were to distrust poor people, I would have to distrust myself. I'm putting myself through college while working 20+ hours a week on the side. All the taxes I pay are ridiculous. I need the money that I work for....

^my childhood

can't sit through this shit anymore.

i want my money back.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news...jobs_december/

A nation of people should take care of a nation of people. I know I'm willing to pay the taxes so that another American won't fall into debt because they needed critical care.

You're lucky that one of you didn't need emergency attention.

nope


I don't know whether the income tax I pay is relevant to state or fed.. which is a bit shameful I guess. My first job is tax free up until $6k, then 15 cents in the dollar to 30k, 30 cents in the dollar to 80k, 38 cents in the dollar to 180k, and anyone who earns more than that pays 45 cents in the dollar. If I have two jobs, the second job doesn't have any tax free period. etc.


people pay yearly property tax here, plus tax when you buy a house/move. Stamp duty varies by state, my state is usually $2500 plus 6% of the property price(it's a table but most houses fall within that rate), which is the most expensive state in australia (fucksake. )
Same when you buy a car.


all that sounds the same as here.. You must be reg to pay 10% if yr biz brings in over 50k a year.

Plus when you buy stuff, it's taxed. If I buy a bottle of soda from the store, I pay 10% tax on it... My phone bill is taxed. My electricity and gasas in.. natural gas, not gasoline I dunno what you guys call that ?) supplies are taxed. Not to mention that if I buy something that is made in oz the place whicih made it would've paid 10% on all the resources it bought here used to make the fkn thing.
If I buy petrol(gas), I pay 30% tax PLUS 10% tax on that. This was a massive issue here but the govt loves it so it will not change ever.


what do you mean by benefits? as in.. if you don't earn an income so you get an unemployed allowance type payment? If it is, that is classed as an income too here and you pay tax on it also, (according to regular tax table I think)


I also pay an amount of tax for public healthcare.. which to be honest I don't completely understand(as in, I dont know whether I'd still have to pay that if I had a ridiculously low income), but on average I pay around $600 dollars a year tax for that. If I didn't have private health insurance (which I do) I would ALSO have to pay another $800 or so.

Tax sucks but to be honest I don't hate my public healthcare system. I might hate it if I were really really poor, because even non-elective surgury waiting lists in the public system are notoriously long here. It does allow me to go see a doctor for free if I really need to(but not all GP are required to offer this service), which I think every person living in a country should have fair access to.

I haven't read this thread btw, I don't really have an interest in talking about a health sytem from another country I don't know anything about. I don't even think that much about my own because Im not terribly unhappy with it.

LOL gg.. you DO get a cash back payment from the govt if you have a baby though.. $5k for each kid.

This is probably my only issue with anything relating to our current healthcare.

Insurance, which is essentially being covered by premiums paid by other people to the insurance company.

This is a gross personal attack and I'm surprised that you aren't above this. It only goes to show your ignorant assumption that unemployment is laziness. Such an easy way to avoid addressing the argumentation itself in a logical manner. I've probably done more volunteer work in my life without pay than you've ever worked for it. Your myopic selfishness now undermines your own self-interests in the long run.

for real. we're in a recession, y'all.

by the way does anyone have any advice on getting a job because if i don't i won't be able to feed myself in 6 months

I'm a bit of a commie at heart, so I have no problem with paying a fair amount so that my fellow country people may have access to medical care no matter what their financial circumstances, if they should need it. :)

Every working person is only a tragedy or two away from being homeless and having nothing. We are human.

^^ I think pbradly was suggesting that just because he might not be working a paying job right now, his acts are no less deserving of compensation in terms of medical care.

I dont think you guys are going to get each other on this one.

hey fuckers i need to eat here. don't let me starve!!!!!

Ha ha ha, that isn't much compared to the house I helped build but I'm not going to go through all the evidence about how I'm not lazy. My Eagle rank in the Boy Scouts, college degree, and work experience from before the recession all prove that I'm not.

Still, using caveats like a pay check as reason to invalidate an argument is childish.

It is stupid of you to assume that I haven't been.

the benefits to the person the work is being done for, or the benefits to the person who is doing the work? :confused:

i know plenty of people who are extremely hard workers who simply would not be able to afford to live if they were paying for health insurance. the good jobs with adequate benefits are extremely hard to find. as satan said, it's a recession.

often, the only way that people who are of lower classes/castes (by that i mean those who have been formally incarcerated, of a race which is discriminated against in a very segregated city, people who had to drop out of high school when they were 16 to support their families, people who's teeth have fallen out because they never had health care...yada yada) can actually "get a job" is by selling their bodies/dealing on the streets etc....because when you have lots of mouths to feed, sometimes a service sector job just doesn't cut it.... of course, i'm talking straight out of my everyday experiences working in what feels like a third world country (and honestly holds a lot of similiarities in some respects)

if you find out, let me know. :(

I will be on my way to the food cart pretty soon.

fixed.

I've said nothing of benefits or what's deserve. A lot of this converstation must be in your own head.

The difference between having the most basic health insurance, and not having any health insurance is negligible here. maybe an extra $100 over the year to have it.

It is pretty much unheard of for any job in my country to supply health insurance of any kind along with the job. I've never ever known anyone who has had this.

thanks boy
thats a really good idea!

we're in this together. fight the good fight.

And yet you are able to post on here so frequently with all those jobs you are working.

perhaps the idea of a public health system is just a little too compassionate for some.

there are a couple restaurants in my city that are pay what you can afford. good for times like these.

we call that mcdonalds.

mcdonalds is stupid expensive here. and crappy food.

really? thats kind of shocking. the crappy food part is a given though.

actually there was a recent news article about what suburbs mcD's had put their prices up in, it was only the very low income ones. Their reasoning was that, people with the money to pay for that shit, will not put up with a price hike, but people who don't have any money and see that as their 'budget place to go to eat out' would pay the extra $$.

There are lots of places in this city you can get a decent meal for WAY less than McD's. A "value meal" there costs you close to $10. You can get decent pizza for between $4 and $7, and a real meal for betwen $6 and $12.

jesus!

You should focus on your work. You're stealing from your employer.

I'm sure something needs a dusting.