I can see that.

Listening to Wavves or New Age or Sic Alps I can't really see myself listening to them seriously 10 years from now. To me they're this age's "new wave" music: fun, kitschy stuff that isn't very deep that is more reflective of the period than timeless. They might as well be the fucking Cars or Corey Heart or Alphaville, because that's what they'll be to me in the future. Ok, maybe I'll give them a little more credit and say they might as well be the Vapors.

Of course there is stuff that's longer lasting than that. I think Sonic Youth, Deerhoof, and Mission of Burma are doing things that are a bit more timeless.

I really don't think that there is so much of a problem of bands running out of space or things to do, I think the problem is more that bands tend to pigeon hole themselves into one genre or another instead of just trying to do something that is honest and from their experiences.

Playing in bands I see this a lot. I see people go "oh let's make a shoegaze band," or I'll hear about some show that has a bunch of "math bands." Or let's write a "ska" song. It's just silly.

Just pick up your instrument and let it play you and see what comes out.

It's all the stuff that sit in charity shops forever - wrecked copies of Blue singles, REM best ofs, Mr Blobby Christmas single...All CDs. I'll post photos if I like it when it's finished.

Nice.

Shape it into a garden gnome made entirely of shit records, then call a teenage girl, sit her on a bench, and convince her to read her secret diary to it.

Isn't that the plot of a David Bowie song?

I'm miming to your post. Do you mind?

Does this piss you off as much as it does me? I have a friend who used to live in LA and was in some band called Amity, and they toured Warped Tour and stuff. Now he is here and he wants us to start a band, and he's all about starting some dance electro-clash band because he thinks that will sell well. I told him I have no interest in making that music, and he said that he didn't either, but we could make money doing it (even that is doubtful in my opinion). He would also talk about this guitarist he knew who left this pretty decent band to play guitar for Ashley Simpson and how cool that is, and I pointed out to him that it wasn't cool. Of course he goes back to the money thing, saying how it IS cool cause he is raking it in.

I have to agree with many of the points made in this thread but disagree with others. Really, I think the biggest problem with music today is there's too much willingness to either duplicate the past or do something completely out there, and there's far more pressure to do the former. Recording technology has progressed to the point that it is easy to duplicate the sounds heard on your favorite records, and too many young bands are under the illusion that they'll sound "more professional" if they sound like established artists. But all that really does is homogenize (sp?) guitar sounds. In the past, amps did have their own unique sound but the player's touch came through, and recording equipment varied by studio/engineer, so differences were inevitable. Nowdays, amp modeling and Pro Tools have made it easy to recreate sounds already heard, so any guitar/amp sound can be produced from any guitar/amp combo. Combine that with the prevailing attitude that what's been done before was better than anything new, i.e. scooping your amp EQ because Metallica did, playing all downstroked barre chords because the Ramones did, etc, and you get the soulless dreck that a lot of music is nowdays.

the responses to this thread have brought a different question to my mind...do you guys have to be right and have the greatest taste all the time?

it seems from the posts i've read here, everything you like is some kind of
timeless reflection of all the truth in the universe

the stuff you don't like.... some completely meaningless shit that the damages the state of music as a whole and has no right to exist

i don't need every record i listen to the most important and groundbreaking thing in the world, and it'd be a huge waste of time to pick stuff out worrying about whether or not i'll like it in ten years.

maybe what's missing is people just liking music and having some enthusiasm for it, instead of wanting to have the best taste and be more of a musical authority than the other guys with soulseek accounts

re-rteading thsi whole thread, and no one's responses come even close to what you are claiming wellcharge. the thread asked for personal OPINIONS and eprsonal opinions came out. to label it elitist is pointless. OF COURSE it is elitist. I WANT to listen to the best shit, the most interesting shit, the most well-done shit. If that is elitist then thank you for calling me the elite.

mediocrity is accomplished by those who "like" something and are "enthusiastic." true greatness is accomplished by those that seek to be the best at whatever is chosen.

rereading my whole post, no sentences come close to the word elitist, more like hopelessly pretentious, but you can take that tag if you like, and i wasn't referring to any of your comments i know you just want to rock out and that's fine

if you don't like something just say it sucks, don't predict what people will think of it in the future, predict it's frequent thrift store appearances, or daydream about melting all known copies, making fun of it on sy gossip is enough.

i find it hilariously contradictory that anything using pre existing ideas is somehow shit, pretty much everyone here at least claims to like coltrane, do you guys realise he spent the first half of his career playing scales fast over broadway melodies? formulaic, commercial.....and great, matter of fact people still listen to it seriously and it's been more than ten years. and he didn't "just pick up his instrument and see what comes out" he said "let's make jazz" which apparently is lame and guarantees shit music

Not liking something and just saying "it sucks" is the lamest cop-out there is, and provides no insight into WHY one thinks some piece of art is sub-par. I like to hear why people dislike something. Sometimes the right person describing something they can't stand in enough detail will actually convince me I would personally love it.

Then again, I am both an unrepentant elitist and extremely pretentious.

And you all have horrible, horrible taste.

sadly people adding insight into why they don't like something ends up looking alot like this article
http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=31223

Well, I didn't say I approved of academic jackasses...

well that's what i don't approve of, and what i saw in most comments in this thread

i don't have a problem with someone saying "the lyrics were stupid" or "the synth tone was cheesy" "the guitar solo started getting wanky after about 200 bars" etc. that's fine, complaining that an album didn't remold the universe in it's image is fine also i guess, but i find it annoying

I don't know if that's true. In some instances it is, obviously, but did a band like, oh I dunno, pick any great sixties garage band, want to be 'the best' or were they just a bunch of teenagers psyched at the idea of being in a band? If anything, their greatness seems to have had more to do with their pragmatic desire simply to get on with it than any need to be the best.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to demonrail666 again.

why dont we just make a seperate thread for everyone who wants to post "Dont be so pretnesus its just rock n roll fun rock out sonic lyfe!!!!!!!!!!!!!111"

and no wellcharge, you don't find it "hilariously contradictory that anything using pre existing ideas is somehow shit" that's just a failed attempt to pretend you know what yr talking about. noone made that claim because its impossible.

in response to yr instructions that "if you don't like something just say it sucks, don't predict what people will think of it in the future, predict it's frequent thrift store appearances, or daydream about melting all known copies, making fun of it on sy gossip is enough." i'll have to say no, and that i'll discuss music in whatever way i want and simply saying it sucks may be enough for you but it's not enough for most of us who actually enjoy hearing other people's opposing and conflicting viewpoints.

there's a fine line between having a valid disagreement with something and angry anti intellectualism, how surprising that certain people here lapse into the latter when anyone dares critique sonic youth.

by the way, most of the time when someone on this board uses the word pretentious they mean "i don't understand that and thus i don't like it and am trying to look as if i am somehow qualified to dismiss it."

try a bit harder next time.

most of the time when someone uses the word pretentious, they mean "i don't understand that and thus i don't like it and am trying to look as if i am somehow qualified to dismiss it."

it's not just syg.

nobody here cares when people critique sonic youth, people complain about which sy albums they hate all the time, but there are alot ways of looking at music that are insulting to the art, and i think this whiny whiteboy art school shit that dominates the thread is embarassing to music fans

but please continue to take the opposing viewpoints that you apparently enjoy hearing personally. i don't need to try anything harder, i'm happy listening to passionate ghetto music which is made every second of everyday around the world. i don't need to use music as a way to show off my mental superiority , no wonder you think things are "missing from today's music".do you want all music to appeal to yr enlightened tastes? i'm satisfied with todays music because there's more quality shit coming out than ever and i can't get enough, people who think something is missing today that was once around must be avoiding music they would like on purpose

actually some people here take hissy fits when someone criticises sonic youth. whiny whiteboy art school shit? yeah it's embarassing to real fans like yu who listen to passionate ghetto music. haha

so i guess us "whiny whiteboy art school"ers should shut up because we wouldn't want our opinions to embarrass the united front that real passionate music fans such yr self want to put up for the board.

and don't worry, there's little chance you ever will be able to use music to "show off yr mental superiority".

and no, i don't want "all music" to appeal to my "enlightened" tastes. i don't usually like music that is made for the purpose of appealing to my tastes or anyones taste but the artist.

the only thing worthwhile thing you've said so far is yr idea that some people are avoiding new music they would actually like on purpose because they think there was something music used to have which it doesn't anymore. i think holding onto an idealised and mostly imaginary nostalgia for a past that barely was can actually be a strong motivation for creative drive.

anyway, i am interested to hear a list of what bands/music you are referring to as ghetto.

if i take that part back can i get another sarcastic rant? i want to continue sitting in awe at the vast intellect western male,please continue pointing out the shortcomings of my savage mind almighty master

i don't want any "united front" for the board,i don't care about pushing my will on others, you're the one who wants to be right about everything almighty master. i don't care about that,i just think you're full of shit and want to point out to that you may enjoy the current musical world more if you're open to musical ideas that don't strive only to remind you of yr own brilliance and advance tastes

alot of music i think falls into that category really,definitely blues and early jazz would. as of late i've been impressed by some older forro stuff from N.E. brazil but i've mostly been more into african/ S.E. european and carribean styles in the past.

i think i would mostly say that i prefer musical advancement to come from a unique person's expression, as opposed to the idea of conciously striving to do something new and progressive. that way of going about music seems egotistical to me and i find it unstimulating in general although i'm not above wanking myself

anyway i edited out the cos pointless and boring bickering.


someone should form a noise band called vast intellect western male tho.

how does the older carribean stuff relate to the current tropical noise/drone stuff? is there any connection? i'd be interested in hearing that. i'm gonna go look up forro aswell.

i'd be willing to start that band, but can i put in the "of the" part that i forgot? or maybe it's more noiselike with the error


anyways i can't prove you wrong because you aren't

its far better without the "of the"

If you include 'of the' it sounds like a King Crimson album. Without 'of the' it sounds like a Fall album.

does sun araw count as tropical drone? i bring him up because it's the only droney thing i've heard that struck me as tropical, if that's the kind of thing you're referring to i think it sounds more like hawaiian and pop exotica type stuff than anything from the carribean

i've heard abe vigoda called tropical, and sometimes their guitar tone reminds me of the instrument mbira, and they said they were influenced by the "hallelujah chicken run band" from zimbabwe who kind of have that sort of trebly airy vibe you can hear in sun araw and abe vigoda, and their singer thomas mapfumo went solo and you might like him when in the mood for heavier material that still maintains a trebly upbeat sound most of the time

i hope that's the kind sound you were talking about.

the older carribean styles like calypso and mento are pretty much as far from drone as you can get since they're based mostly on a repetitive rhythm with the focus on the lyrics(much like hiphop)

yeah sun araw and ducktails are the kind of stuff i mean.

thanks for that man, very interesting. gonna investigate some of that tonight.

today's music is lacking accordions, some bands have one, but what happened to lead and rhythm accordion? playing rhythm with the left hand and soloing with the right has a similar effect but it's not quite the same, and there's not enough groups where a chromatic button player and a piano accordion go head to head.

I don't think there is enough guys with long beards.

Is it wrong that I think SUNN((O)) are the avant-garde rock equivalent of enya? background music to do dishes to or fasll asleep to?

damn!

That's what I think whe I listen to SUNN((o)) records!!! I can handle ten minutes of drone befor ea SONG or in a SONG or as part opf a SONG structure, but a double LP of what sounds like my stere receiver turned up to 11 and the WEQ maxed out with maxed out gain, and nothing else? Oh robes, that is right. they have robes.

The melvins did the same damn thing but they understood dynamics and tension and that to fully appreciate quiet you must have loud next to it to comoparema dn to fully appreciate slow drones, you must have raucous riffs to complement them.

mid morn rant

No, I have exactly the same reaction to Sunn O))). After a few minutes they just wash over me in a quite ambient fashion. Saying that, I've never seen them live and a few people tell me they make a lot more sense in that context than they do through hi-fi speakers. I can't say that I'm too enthusiastic to find out though.

ha ha yes.

THIS

I bet DIO could come up with appropriately ghoulish and macabre magick lyrics to sing while Tony Iommi plays Toccatta and Fugue in D on that massive pipe organ!

The Eternal.

o wait