I like when people actually like the crap I write for once but I really hate reading it back its always so unreadable its like my brain is assembling words like a tetris game.

Sighs. This thread is hopeless. What upsets me is there are like five people left on this forum, and I really don't feel like hanging out with any of them anymore.

Is it possible that, instead of being racist, some people here just dont see the racism in this particular case? And whats more noone here would want someone to be able to kill an innocent person and not get prosecuted for it?

And also that none of us are against you in probably everything you would advocate when it came to law and policy on these type of issues?

I'm not accusing people of being racist. There is a difference between harboring racist sentiments, opinions, and ideas and actually being a full-fledged racist. I don't think Bytor or !@#$% are racist, but I can't possibly understand how they can't see what is so plain and obvious. You? We already talked, you're just relatively inexperienced with this matter, and have rightfully conceded ignorance. Here is the crux of the matter, too many apologists get all defensive and self-righteous when it comes to talking about racism in our society. Just because society suffers from structure racism, doesn't mean it has to be personal or attacking individuals. However, if individuals refuse to discuss reality, and instead want to argue that there isn't racism or injustice in very obvious instances, well, that is obstruction and will only result in defeat like other dinosaur ways of thinking. Every black and brown person in America totally understands what smells like shit about this Zimmerman acquittal, and half of the white people do too. Those who don't? Shit, I can't help but sigh and wonder...

In defence of suchfriends, this is a thread full of white people washing their hands of a systematic problem to which they're largely blind.

An example: 2 white men and a black man walks into a bar; one is turned away. Any mention that it might've been racially motivated (which is moot) by the black person is perceived as 'chip on the shoulder'. And this sort of stuff happens always. So there's two problems: first is the possibility (which I haven't followed at all) that a white person shot a black person on the grounds that he was black; the second problem is that a lot of white people will immediately, and very shrilly say 'I'm not racist' because racism is something that happened in the past and could not possibly continue to be a problem. So the whys and wheretofores of the possibility that it might be racially motivated murder (to repeat, I've not followed the case) are clouded by the intense desire for white people to pretend there doesn't continue to be (very euphemistically speaking) 'a complex relationship' between white society and black.

That racism doesn't appear solely in a KKK hood appears to mislead white people into thinking that this isn't an incredibly severe problem.

I'll go further and say that I've recently realised that the sincere claim to 'not being racist' by white people very often limits the ability of black people to talk about their emotions.

blah blah bell hooks blah blah Audre Lorde blah blah

I think you should. They are. I am. Everyone's got a problem so long as some people have a problem. In a sense, racism's so systematic that we're as well to come to terms with the fact that we're really bad at getting on with minor variations in these loosely-tied sacks of flesh we call lives.

He should have gotten manslaughter IMO. Murder constitutes intent, and no matter how you paint it, there is no way Zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon.

A good read: http://chicksontheright.com/posts/it...-trial-to-date

I think I will..

dead is dead

and alive is alive......

and Pearl Jam sucks

Which we can't say about Trayvon Martin now can we.

The link you posted was bullshit. You shouldn't read bullshit like that, let alone take it seriously. Here is something better for you, its Professor Tricia Rose and Tavis Smiley discussing their reactions to the Zimmerman verdict and in particular the President's woefully inadequate response. Be careful now, they are black folks, I hope it doesn't make you uncomfortable enough to crassly claim they are "biased" or worse,simply not listen to the substance of what they are saying. I read the article you posted, and disagreed with entirely, but I read it. I encourage you to listen to this 20 minute interview, and it will perfectly reflect this situation and either enlighten you to as Glice mentioned, a reality you may be blind to, or at least, remind you of a reality you may sometimes also chose to casually want to minimize.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/...s-tricia-rose/

Remember when Bernie Goetz shot 4 dudes with an illegal firearm in the NYC subway ? The jury aquited him of every charge except unlawful possesion of a firearm.

shit has been fucked. shit don't change. That was 1984.

This is 2013. Shit don't change.

Here is what Goetz did after shooting the 4 kids in the subway

He went home to gather some belongings, then rented a car and drove north to Bennington, Vermont, where he burned his blue jacket and dismantled the revolver, scattering the pieces in the woods north of town. He drove around New England for several days, registering at motels under various names and paying in cash. On December 26, an anonymous hotline caller told New York City police that Goetz matched the gunman's description, owned a gun, and had been mugged previously.

sounds like a man with something to hide huh? Jury didn't give a fuck. In NYC you can kill someone
Section 35.15, "A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person... unless... He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit [one of certain enumerated predicate offenses, including robbery]."

It's not just Texas or Florida.

But they were robbing him and had long sheets. There are lot of fucking scumbags out there and deserve what they get. I'm sorry, but when 4 black guys lurk over you in the subway and ask for $5, they aren't asking. Goetz had also been the victim of a violent mugging. I guess I've been the victim of several attempted muggings over the years...

1. times square 1989 black man
2. times square 1988 group of black teens
3. williamsburg 1989 hispanic kid
4. williamsburg 1988 gang of white crack addicts

the whole point being that if a black man shot 4 white youths in NYC in 1984 he would have been thrown to the wolves. Goetz shot unarmed youths, one of them twice because he did not look like he was hurt enough, then proceeded to run away and destroy and hide his firearm. a truly honest and innocent person would have gone to the police and reported everything instantly.

"I was getting mugged, I feared for my life, and I shot the fuckers. Here is the gun I used"

but he did not. whether that was because his gun was illegally procured, or whether he did not have the concealed license for it, or whether he knew he did wrong is another matter.

I'm not sure many honest people would turn themselves in if they see an opportunity to "get away with it".

self-defense, if it really is self-defense, is not about "getting away with it" That would be vigilantism.

i've been meaning to ask for you who follow this, in what alternate universe is zimmerman "white"?




hm yeah look at those aryan features

since when do white folks consider Jews white?

he's an afroandean mixblood. hebrew as well?

Aren't there cases where people still get sentenced to prison when they kill/injure someone in 'self defense'?

His father was a "white" German Jew. His mom was a Peruvian with black and white in her, like most hispanics.

he could be related to Bob Dylan! (Robert Zimmerman)

that is called manslaughter and there are various degrees of it, and YES zimmerman should have gotten convicted of manslaughter I think.

in a state with different laws perhaps, but stand your ground grants a sort of immunity to the shooter--the jury looked at the manslaughter charges but did not convict.

the interviews w/ the jurors (i heard a couple of them yesterday on the amy good man show) were interesting.

As a young Mexican male. I'd be terrified to turn myself in regardless of the fact that I was acting on self defense.

Hence the structural racism inherent to the system. Again, all-white jury with a straight face decides to ignore manslaughter. Hmmmm. Didn't these fuckers at least even read To Kill A Mocking Bird or some shit?


Is that some kind of euphemism for pathetic?

Again. fuckers here are misunderstanding of structural racism is cute, but bullshit. Its not about if Zimmerman is white, or jewish, or Peruvian, or any such thing. Its that a 17 year black kid, who was unarmed, was provoked by a strange, armed, grown ass man, who then subsequently in some kind of struggle shot and killed this young man. The racism plays in to the after effect. The way in which an overwhelming majority of people seem to insinuate that Trayvon MUST have been guilty of something, when he wasn't. Then further insinuations that because some black males have committed crime, that, well, you know, gee golly its perfectly reasonable to profile ALL black men as potential criminals. And the most damning part, an ALL-WHITE jury in a notoriously racist penal system in the state of Florida somehow found Zimmerman entirely innocent of everything, even the very obvious accidental death/manslaughter which point blank would have been his sentence had he killed an unarmed, middle-class white teenager, even in the same circumstances entirely.

they were interesting because they let me see inside their little heads and watch how they think.

I can agree to that, but unfortunately I may just be too upset to even remotely hear them out. All can say every time I see or hear them on the TV is a resounding, reverberating, deeply resonating, "FUCK YOU!"

the thing with you is that you seldom entertain difference. either they think like you and they are right or they don't think like you and they are wrong.

it was peculiar to me to hear a woman say she'd have "george" as neighborhood watch again.

such familiarity!

a jury of his peers.

i try to see it as they see it and understand. personally, i can pronounce no verdict.

too bad they did not get a jury of Trayvon's peers.

right, i've read that criticism, but the thing is, he wasn't on trial.

or should i say: the florida law granted zimmmerman the role of judge jury and executioner.

how are 6 white women a jury of a hispanic/jewish man's peers though?

it's because the real issue in america isn't race, it's CLASS. race is just a huge fucking racist inventionto keep the hoi polloi divided.

true dat as well.

gotta get paid.

I have been railing about tat to everyone I know everytime something like this pops up. the red herring is race. the true demarcation is along MONEY lines. Money money money. It is the sole reason all corporations and businesses exist and the sole reason non-profit organizations exist, regardless of what they use their money for.

the women in the jury were middle class suburban residents afraid of crime.

georgie z was their guard dog who "accidentally" bit a stranger.

he'll be more responsible from now on, they said.

I agree. I think in the post-case analysis the prosecution opted NOT for a black member on the jury because of the risk for a hung jury, however, that would have been preferable, because then there would be the option of a fairer retrial. See, I know from tangible experience that simply put, white people act and speak differently when black people are around then when they're not. So if a black person was on that jury, those white women would have had to shelve any of their potential prejudices, and that alone might have forced them to think towards manslaughter or at least hang the jury and try again. Now? No options. And this duppy supposed "first-black" president in the US has opted NOT to enact a Federal inquiry through the Justice Department. What a bitch. After the Rodney King blasphemy, even honky as George Bush I established a federal commission and investigated the LAPD for racism.


Further, Bill Clinton in 1997 established a federal commission to investigate structural racism. After the James Byrd lynching, the White House was heavily involved in community relations, public discourse, and praise of the guilty verdicts coming out of Texas.

George Bush II surprisingly worked hard to push Immigration Reform THREE times through the Legislature but was thwarted embarrassingly by the bulwarks of his Grand Ol Party..

Barack? He says the jury has spoken. This is much worse than when he vindicated that racist fucking cop who arrested Harvard Professor Henry Gates Jr for breaking into his own house. Instead of castigating the police, he shamed Skip Gates by forcing him to have a beer with that racist fucking pig at the White House? Beer Gate was embarrassing, but this Zimmerman shit is damnable. What if some cops or worse, a vigilante, shot Skip Gates accusing him of being a burglar??


Fuck you Mr. Obama. Every black person in America just realized they fucked up in supporting you over Hilary Clinton. Surprise!! At least it will be a formative experience, black folks will come to learn the reality of American politcs, its just good cop/bad cop but nothing changes. What forced George Bush's hand? Oh right, the 1992 LA Uprising which lasted FOUR MONTHS, not merely four days. What pushed Bill Cliinton? Oh right, the reality that black and brown folks were an increasing proportion of America, and there was growing backlash against the less-than-veiled racism which bubbled to the surface in the post-1992 Uprising reactions as well as the OJ Simpson trial and California's Proposition 187. I hope every black, brown, and sympathizing white person who honestly supported Obama takes a long look in the mirror, and opts for sincere grass-roots politicking, advocacy, and coalition building. Whose streets? Our streets. But when we cave and cop-out to politicians, we lose the battle.

so in Florida it is cool to engage in a personal lynching huh?

Obama is a politician from Chicago. That city and that state have a lineage of deeply corrupt politicians serving as governor, senator and representatives from there. Hell, recently three separate governors were in prison for corruption. You do not get ahead in chicago without sucking the cocks of organized crime,a dn using their money and leverage to get ahead.

that's what the protesters are asking for now. "damn the jury, damn the trial, he's guilty in our eyes"